Just when you think you've heard it all

[deangelr]

I have seen at least half a dozen hybrid clowns come into the US over the years. If there are hybrids coming in on a regular basis then they must be occuring somewhat regularly in the wild.. When I say "a ton, a ton" I dont literally mean they are everywhere in the wild, I just mean that hybridization occurs with regularity.

you ask for a maroon ocellaris hybrid? ask and you shall recieve: http://www.rareclownfish.com/forums/f10/wild-caught-hybrid-and-variant-pair-4085/

There are plenty of examples and threads out there like this one (not necessary the maroon/occy mix).

MarinaP, Pretty good argument there for a true species tag on the leuks. I don't claim to know for a fact that they are a hybrid.. But is there a healthy population of leuk pairs out there? As far as I know (which may not be much), they are not normally found in pairs, and there is not centralized location where you can dive and see large numbers of leuks.. is this correct? Just a thought..

 

[Winwood]

i do not like the hybrids either, but i have a strange attraction to this one....

Hey Jordan, what are the proposed parent species of this fish?

 

[mr.iacuessa]

come on guys, hybrids arent all bad, i personally think a maroon/ocellaris and a ocellaris/maroon pair would be pretty cool!

 

[Go29]

The way i see it, how many people that rag on ORA own dogs??? And i wonder how many of these dogs are pure bred, and how many are for lack of a better term mutts. I just see nothing wrong with a company, through the use of natural methods mind you, mixing and matching certain clowns to get these "designer" clowns. Like it or not, by doing this they entice MANY new hobbyists to buy their captive bred fish, as opposed to the cheaper wild caught specimens carried in many of their local fish stores. ORA is just that, a business and i say more power to them if they can find natural ways to get different types of clowns, thus enticing more potential buyers to get their clowns as opposed to cheap, wild caught specimens.

 

[Ceebuano]

i hope this hybrid reaches the philippines..this is nice

 

[Reefvette]

The way i see it, how many people that rag on ORA own dogs??? And i wonder how many of these dogs are pure bred, and how many are for lack of a better term mutts. I just see nothing wrong with a company, through the use of natural methods mind you, mixing and matching certain clowns to get these "designer" clowns. Like it or not, by doing this they entice MANY new hobbyists to buy their captive bred fish, as opposed to the cheaper wild caught specimens carried in many of their local fish stores. ORA is just that, a business and i say more power to them if they can find natural ways to get different types of clowns, thus enticing more potential buyers to get their clowns as opposed to cheap, wild caught specimens.

Its not so much them sellig or marketing them. Its how they claim they got them.

 

[Ron Popeil]

colt, to me i see a tomato x maroon cross. but it looks like a clarki complex with a great red orange color. super cool.

 

[DeathWish302]

The way i see it, how many people that rag on ORA own dogs??? And i wonder how many of these dogs are pure bred, and how many are for lack of a better term mutts.

I think you need to understand that most are trying to maintain pure bloodlines of captive specimens. As for dogs, there is one thing I have been corrected on and I have to agree. Dogs are bred to create a specific 'breed', not a species. These clowns are different species being bred into hybrids. A cross between a maroon and a tomato is a bit extreme in my opinion, but a fire crossed with a ruby or tomato is not so extreme. Basically the dogs to clowns argument isn't quite the same, but the point is taken (or should be) by most.

I'm a purist when it comes to clowns and specific species. If others' prefer the designer selections, more power to you.

more potential buyers to get their clowns as opposed to cheap, wild caught specimens.

This is by far the best thing going with ORA. They are a captive breeding machine and my hat is off to them.

 

[ezhoops]

Its not so much them sellig or marketing them. Its how they claim they got them.

EXACTLY!:wave:

 

[phender]

As far as I know there is one documented spawning of chrysopterus and sando in the wild in the Fautin and Allen book. Eggs were not collected, so the outcome is unknown.

10 years or so ago there was a report on reefs.org that leuk pair produced mixed offsprings of leuks, sandies and chrys. There are no pictures of chrys or sando babies.

One person sold some CB leuks on rareclowns, and they all looked like leuks.

There is a pair for sale on cherrycorals for $1800 of CB leuks. They look like leuks.

All my babies from luek pair look like the parents. I do not see a strong agrument that leuks are hybrids

I thought someone did collect some eggs from this pair and reported at a marine conference that the babies were leucs.

In the mid-90's a pair at the Stephen Birch Aquarium had a couple spawns. I saw them in person and pics were published in Aquarium Frontiers magazine. The babies showed a large range. A couple had 3 complete stripes. A couple had only a dorsal stripe. Most of the babies were somewhere in between.

The pair on Cherrycorals don't look the same though there is a variation between there patterns and who knows what the other babies might have looked like.

If someone tells you they have a WC ocellaris, clarkii, sandaracinos, etc. You pretty much know exactly what that fish looks like as far as color pattern and body shape goes. If someone tells you they have a WC leucokranos you have only a vague idea as to what it might look like as far as body shape/color pattern.

When you breed two mutts together, you get more mutts. Most of them resemble their parents but not exactly. You don't get babies that look their pure bred grand parents.

 

[Reefvette]

I thought someone did collect some eggs from this pair and reported at a marine conference that the babies were leucs.

In the mid-90's a pair at the Stephen Birch Aquarium had a couple spawns. I saw them in person and pics were published in Aquarium Frontiers magazine. The babies showed a large range. A couple had 3 complete stripes. A couple had only a dorsal stripe. Most of the babies were somewhere in between.

The pair on Cherrycorals don't look the same though there is a variation between there patterns and who knows what the other babies might have looked like.

If someone tells you they have a WC ocellaris, clarkii, sandaracinos, etc. You pretty much know exactly what that fish looks like as far as color pattern and body shape goes. If someone tells you they have a WC leucokranos you have only a vague idea as to what it might look like as far as body shape/color pattern.

When you breed two mutts together, you get more mutts. Most of them resemble their parents but not exactly. You don't get babies that look their pure bred grand parents.

+1 also wanna add that Bruce carlson wrote an article where he showed the different barring patterns of Luecokranos. Ive seen like 10 different combos.

 

[MarinaP]

I saw two WC pairs of leuks. They came from Live Aquaria long time ago. The four fish looked very much alike.

Validity of leuks as a species can be argued till kingdom comes in the absense of genetic mapping. For now they remain a separate species

 

[Reefvette]

Marina in the last two years i have seen between 15 - 20 WC LUECS, not one pattern is the same.

The differences were amazing, i dont consider it a different species because they dont have uniform look to them. You can take one fish and say that is a luecokranos. They always looks different.

 

[MarinaP]

Designer clowns look different from their grandparents and often their parents as well

 

[Reefvette]

But they are an anomaly there isnt 20 pr 30 pf them there is 2 or 3.

Luecks and theilli show up in large numbers now compared to years ago.

Blue stripes and orange skunks have been found in ane
Ones together. Ora's are suspected hybrids. Unless they have the fish together breeding and are producing fertile eggs they should lay off the cross pollination thing.

Just like humans out of ever 5000 or so there is people with albino skin, darker skin, dwarfs, sick, diseased, deformitites.

The reason why ora has these fish is that they breed so many your are bound to have fish that are different.

Also the claim of sperm traveling is like saying a women got pregnant from being in a hot tub with male semen.

I highly doubt with their sophostocated filtration that sperm is not going to make it from tank to tank. As walt said there has always been evidence to support the hybid of blue stripe and skunks.

I had a harem of clowns living in a mertens carpet.

4.5 inch female luec
2.5 in orange skunk
And two juvi fish
A juvi white tail blue stripe and juvi orange skunk.

All went well till the bluestripe matured and the female lueco killed the larger orange skunk and the blue strip took over as mate.

For a year i had the lueco with the orange skunk and she showed no interest.

I slowly introduced the blue stripe in a breeder box and the lueco took roght to him.

They had the same personality. Which leads me to beleive that some luecs act like skunks complex and some act like clarki complex. And need to be paired based on that.

 

[Reefvette]

In reference designer clowns those are man made fish throught selective breeding. In nature we find leucos and thielli in larger numbers.

Alot of the snowcasso and snowflake all came from misbarred clowns. They should be cheaper not more. Why arent perfectly barred clowns 250 and the ones wot messed up bars that wouodnt survove in the wild 20 bucks

The only reason misbar latz didnt catch on is because no one wants to say i have a misbared wide band clown. Thats why i gladly payed for karen brittans latz.

 

[elegance coral]

This is very cool!!! Thanks for sharing Marina.

I don't understand why everyone is getting all worked up over the whole species thing. They're only considered different "species" because we say they are, and we change our minds about it all the time. Science is constantly combining what was once two species, into one, and splitting one species into two different species.

People can travel long distances from their native land and produce fertile/healthy offspring with someone that looks nothing like them, and that's okay. If a fish is paired with another fish that looks different, and originates from a different area, but produces fertile/healthy offspring, people have a problem with that???? I'll never understand this. Some of the clowns we consider different "species" may have been separated as late as the end of the last ice age. People from different regions were separated much earlier than this.

I bet most of the clowns we group into one species, is carrying genes we associate with a totally different species. I've seen one clutch of eggs, from a typical pair of clarkii's, produce all normal looking clarkii's except one. One of the offspring had a lyre tail, while all the rest had normal rounded tails. Where did the genes for that lyretail come from?

If we fallow the most accepted definition of "species", the regular ocellaris and Darwin ocellaris should be two different species, but they're not. We consider them to be the same species, but ocellaris and percula are different???????????

The species line is all but irrelevant. It's simply a means of naming animals so we know what each other is talking about.

 

[SkullV]

A pair of these mystery hybrids appears to be showing up on divers den this evening. I wonder what the price tag will be.

 

[Reefvette]

Ill quote seth meyers on snl for this "hybrids? Really ORA really.

Not sure on the hybrid dd clowns i think seth mayer says it all

 

[SkullV]

A pair of these mystery hybrids appears to be showing up on divers den this evening. I wonder what the price tag will be.

$600 that's crazy.