Kalk with Doser help needed

i'm tagging along this thread but have a question for John, a fellow reefer told me to use a float valve and put a small powerhead in my topup container. let it drip in slowly replenishing the evaporated water. it drips in milky white. is this bad? should i mix then skim the clear liquid off? and if done this way what happens to all the sediment? is it devoid of calcium hydoxid? want to use kalk but really didn't want to have to buy a reactor. actually i don't see alot of differance between a reactor and my rubbermade with powerhead. can you clue me in here to the differance? thanks
aaron
 
Interests: MAKING BEER,BEER,BEER AND MORE BEER!
mmmmmm BEER.... mmmm hmmm.. oh I'm sorry... what were you saying?? did you have a question?

LOL.. Just messing around. I am by no means a Kalk expert - but I have spent more than a few years playing with it and have more than a few DIY reactors that I've tinkered with.

Dosing milky Kalk is NOT recommended. Some people do it, but I have read that it's a bad idea because Kalk (pickling lime,etc) doesn't disolve correctly in SW, but rather reacts with SW to form nasty compounds. It's been many years and I don't have the article in front of me, but IMS it was written by Randy Holmes-Farly and part of the series he did on limewater. I think it was the article where he talked about using vinegar... or was that Bingman... Sheesh.. too long ago.

Anyway, if you are tinkering with making a Kalk reactor, there are a couple of important points to consider.

1) The container must be devoid of air. This is because the saturated Kalk solution reacts with CO2 in the atmosphere and produces Calcium 'something-er-rather' which basicly precipitates out or forms a nasty crust on your solution. The larger issue is that just like sugar crystals in a bowl of simple syrup (for all you cooks out there), the Kalk solution will start to precipitate more because there is a precipitate... at least that's what I remember.

2) You don't want to dose milky kalk, so you need to mix (if you mix) when you aren't dosing. This means either two pumps, or a pump for mixing (on a timer) and a gravity feed drip for dosing.

The powder in the bottom of the jug/reactor after Kalk solution is formed is a mix of precipitates - generally phosphate, heavy metals, calcium hydroxide (undisolved), etc. If you are using a reactor, this is the stuff that you clean out every few months. If you are using jugs to make this - this is what you should rinse out before you make your next batch.


John.
 
well heres what i have going. just a small cube tank so i use a 1 1/2gal bucket that i have plumbed to a float valve on the sump. i mixed up kalk with a small powerhead in the bucket and let it drip until empty.(i was agitating the water all the time hence the milky drip) now i'm going to mix it for about an hour then remove the powerhead and put a lid on bucket. i read an article by Anthony Calfo about co2 having an effect on calcim but not enough loss to make a differance is what i gathered from the article. i really don't want to get into trying to make my own reactor(unless you send me plans with parts and all!) i've got a brand new baby and my time and funds are limited right at the moment. i'm hoping my El Cheapo buckt reactor will work fine. i did notice my PH up a bit but not drastic.
BTW my beer making days have slowed down a bit too! was to the point i was making about 30 to 50 gals a month, will see what spring and nicer weather brings.!
 
hrmmm.. might need to trade some beer for Kalk reactor :D

I know, I know... state lines and trade for hardware bad bad.. :D

I've got a buddy here that I make beer with every so often..

Catch you later,
John.
 
Kalk is easy to set up, difficult to master as your CA/ALK supplementation scheme. My advice is to match the kalk drip rate to your evaporation rate, and adjust the strength of the kalk based on your tank's CA/ALK usage. It's going to take a month or two to get it figured out, but you will find the sweet spot. To keep up with demands in my old 75, it was 3/4 cup of vinegar and 4 tablespoons of kalk per 5 gallons -- slightly supersaturated. My 125 is now 8 weeks old, and I just fired up the Litermeter III a week ago with my 44 gallon Rubbermaid Brute as kalk storage. I have the evaporation rate matched, but it will probably take me a month to figure out exactly what strenth of kalk I need to dose to maintain what I want ~410ppm CA, ~7.0 dKH, ~8.3 pH.

Just be patient. Once you get the right concentration on your kalk, you'll be terribly happy -- topoff, CA, and ALK supplementation for cheap (I use pickling lime) all in one shot is a very nice thing.
 
I should have added...

To match drip rates to evap rates, you need a doser -- Tunze Osmolator, refurbished peristaltic hospital pump, or if you want to go full out a Litermeter III (which can also control more pumps to automate water changes -- that's coming later for me :)).

Also, you don't need a kalk reactor. A trash can or any rubbermaid with a lid works fine. The mixed kalk will produce sediment and an upper crust. Even with a semi-loose fitting lid, air won't degrade kalk significantly over a 1-2 week period (my 44 gallons is enough for two weeks of topoff). You don't have to mix it up daily or anything like that just make it, let it settle overnight (everything but the sediment and upper crust is clarifies in that time), and start dosing. Your feed line should be a couple of inches off the bottom of your storage tank, just so you're not dosing the sediment.

It's not as bad as it seems, it just takes a little time to master. The $100-$350 you spend on your dosing pump and the pennies you spend on pickling lime are WAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper in the long run than 2-part.

Finally, kalk won't raise your CA or ALK, it will only maintain them. Keep your 2-part stuff for getting those levels up initially and tinkering with the balance once you've got good numbers.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6839504#post6839504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Alaskan Reefer
Finally, kalk won't raise your CA or ALK, it will only maintain them. Keep your 2-part stuff for getting those levels up initially and tinkering with the balance once you've got good numbers.

I'm not sure why this keeps coming up. Maybe I'm the only one who's had conflicting experiance, but I don't think so. From what I had read (if memory serves years later) Kalk is balanced ionicly - so it "won't correct an inbalance between alk/Ca." But it will certainly raise your levels togethor if you want.

My current tank was setup with poor Ca/Alk levels and I almost got into trouble by using my Kalk reactor. I finally checked at the point that my reactor was getting low on Kalk and my levels were 460Ca and 12DKH ... I know for a fact the salt mix used 2 months previous wasn't running that high.

Additionally, in my old 157g display. I used Turbo Ca to get my calcium back into balance with my alk and then dosed the heck out of Kalk (2 gal a night for 100% evap replacement) and my levels were fat and sassy at 430ca and 10DKH (not 100% sure about the DKH there, but thats about right if memory serves).

So... IME, Kalk will certainly raise your Calcium and Buffer levels.

otherwise - great info, thanks Alaskan Reefer!

Just my $0.02

John.
 
Nexis -- I should back off that a little, since I can't say FOR SURE that it's true -- my first kalk experience was during a coraline explosion, when literally I had coraline growing everywhere exponentially. It was all pretty and nice, until about a week into the explosion when I did my standard weekly CA and ALK tests -- only to find 360 or so CA and dangerously low 4.5 DKH ALK. It was no wonder my stony corals were starting to shrivel up. I dosed supersaturated kalk (5 tablespoons and 1 cup of vinegar per 5 gallons) and added 2 part like a madman for about two weeks and ended up at 420/8.0 respectively -- not REALLY knowing how I got there. Then, it was a month of backing off the kalk, catching up, and so on until I found the sweet spot. I did test throughout and only found significant increases during times when I dumped in the 2 part. The heavy duty kalk could have been just as responsible for increasing the levels so I definitely could be wrong on that. Thanks for the information, I need to test the theory more specifically. :)
 
No worries Alaskan Reefer. By getting everyones input we'll eventually be able to extrapilate how things actually work in our systems rather than how it appears to work in mine/yours/others.

Thanks for the info.
John.
 
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