Kalkwasser Powered Stony Tanks

Randy Holmes Farley wrote the article.There is a link to the article in one of my earlier posts in this thread.In my case going to Kalk from a Ca Rx reduced the need for constant Mg dosing so it definitely has a boosting property with me ignoring how any specific data is interpreted.

I have switched back a few times(from Ca Rx to Kalk)for a short while and watched my Mg fall with two different medias with the Rx employed(TLF and ARM) and as anecdotal as this seems it is considered as fact to me.My interpretation of Randys article lends merit to this.

FYI for the PO4 conscious people out there.I also discovered that the effluent from the Ca Rx typically had a PO4 reading of 4.8ppm or greater to create a effluent drip with the general DKH of around 30 dkh.With Kalk I can add the same amount of alkalinity to my aquarium with significantly less PO4.Again, this is my interpretation of data and studies I have read, and my personal experience over the last decade or so measuring these levels and growing corals.
 
I've had great results with Kalk and have used it to varying degrees for 25 years. One reason I believe there is debate is buried within each side (pro/cons) argument. Kalk gives balanced and high concentration of calcium and Alk. The problem is its tendency to cause precipitation of calcium carbonate. As has been recommended you should disperse the solution in a high flow area over as long a period as possible. But as we desire to increase the dose we then experience more of this adverse precipitation. Even if you put the drip in high flow there will be a potential to increase the precipitation of calcium carbonate. Remember the kalk pH is something around 11-12. So even in the high flow drop you in theory may get some precipitation. An the higher the tanks pH the easier this will happen even at a drip in high flow. As a result the Alk will then begin to drop. This leads to wanting to add more Alk either as 2 part or calcium reactor, etc.
So I believe that's why Kalk seems to have limitations for many using it. Some swear by it and others failed with it and still others fall in between. Each system is different and the method of use is different. Understanding the tanks chemistry and how Kalk affects this chemistry is the key to successful implementation of Kalk.
 
I've had great results with Kalk and have used it to varying degrees for 25 years. One reason I believe there is debate is buried within each side (pro/cons) argument. Kalk gives balanced and high concentration of calcium and Alk. The problem is its tendency to cause precipitation of calcium carbonate. As has been recommended you should disperse the solution in a high flow area over as long a period as possible. But as we desire to increase the dose we then experience more of this adverse precipitation. Even if you put the drip in high flow there will be a potential to increase the precipitation of calcium carbonate. Remember the kalk pH is something around 11-12. So even in the high flow drop you in theory may get some precipitation. An the higher the tanks pH the easier this will happen even at a drip in high flow. As a result the Alk will then begin to drop. This leads to wanting to add more Alk either as 2 part or calcium reactor, etc.
So I believe that's why Kalk seems to have limitations for many using it. Some swear by it and others failed with it and still others fall in between. Each system is different and the method of use is different. Understanding the tanks chemistry and how Kalk affects this chemistry is the key to successful implementation of Kalk.

This reflects my experience, as well. Of course, much of the same can happen with any of the dosing schemes (minus the consistently higher pH).
 
Randy Holmes Farley wrote the article.There is a link to the article in one of my earlier posts in this thread.In my case going to Kalk from a Ca Rx reduced the need for constant Mg dosing so it definitely has a boosting property with me ignoring how any specific data is interpreted.

I have switched back a few times(from Ca Rx to Kalk)for a short while and watched my Mg fall with two different medias with the Rx employed(TLF and ARM) and as anecdotal as this seems it is considered as fact to me.My interpretation of Randys article lends merit to this.




The article noted in your previous post, ie post 29 is from Reefkeeping Magazine not Reef Hobbysist Magazine. I have read the article you cited a number of times.It lends no weight or merit to your interpretation ;it directly contradicts it.

No disrespect but I completely disagree with your interpretation and have no idea how you got there:

This is from the articleby Randy Farely cited in your post 29:


"..What Else Does Limewater Do In An Aquarium? Reduce Magnesium


Despite old beliefs that using of limewater depletes magnesium, the truth is somewhat more complicated. As was shown above, magnesium is not dosed in typical settled limewater because it is insoluble; nor is it present in very high concentration even in undissolved lime. Craig Bingman showed thatprecipitation of magnesium carbonate and hydroxide in aquaria using limewater was unlikely to be significant. More likely, such depletion is simply the result of not delivering as much magnesium to the aquarium as is being “exported” during calcification.
In a previous article I used the data presented earlier in this article to develop models of how magnesium might be depleted from reef aquaria over the course of a year using limewater based on magnesium incorporation rates typical of corals and coralline algae. Table 8 shows some of the data generated.




<table align="center" border="1" width="666"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="5">
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]Table 8. Magnesium depletion with dosing of settled limewater.[/SIZE][/FONT]​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="138">[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]Amount of limewater added daily[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td width="120">[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]Starting Magnesium (ppm)[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td width="126">[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]Magnesium Added over 1 year (ppm)[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td width="148">[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]Magnesium Removed over 1 year (ppm)[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td width="117">[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]Final Magnesium (ppm)[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> </tr> <tr> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]0.5% of tank volume[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1280 [/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]0.03[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]37[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1243[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> </tr> <tr> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1% of tank volume[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1280[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]0.06[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]74[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1206[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> </tr> <tr> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]2% of tank volume[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1280[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]0.12[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]149[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1131[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> </tr> </tbody></table>



As expected, the magnesium depletion is significant. While this depletion may be mitigated in a number of ways (including water changes), it shows that aquarists using limewater should consider monitoring magnesium over long periods of time. The previous article also compared magnesium depletion via limewater to magnesium depletion using a variety of different calcium carbonate materials in CaCO[SIZE=-1]3[/SIZE]/CO[SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE] reactors."


Randy has been very consistent about the fact that magnesium is not dosed with limewater in dozens if not hundreds of threads and in his articles.

It is not a matter of interpretation , it's just not possible to add magnesium from limewater .



You grow nice corals, so I'm confident you have adequate magnesium;however, any bump is not coming from limewater.


My original statement in post 38, a post supportive of your position on benefits of multiple approaches which you disagreed with is completely correct :


CACO3 reactors ........., may contribute impurities but do add some useful magnesium which limewater doesn't.




<table align="center" border="1" height="122" width="666"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="148">
</td> <td width="117">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]149[/SIZE][/FONT]</td> <td>[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]1131[/SIZE][/FONT]</td></tr></tbody></table>
 
As long as it is a still, covered, reservoir it will not lose any potency for about a month. If you are dosing saturated limewater then you can add extra lime to the reservoir. The undissolved lime will sink to the bottom and as you get precipitation the excess lime will dissolve and keep it saturated. In this situation you could keep it indefinitely.
 
Thanks for info, good to know. Hey Clowndude, nice photos. What kind of fish is that in the second pic? The yellow spotted looking one. Thanks.
 
How long is kalk good for in the ATO? 1 week? 2 weeks? Doesn't it go bad?

It will hold it's strength for month or more in a still reservoir.

Here's a little bit on how:

The(Ca(OH2)calcium hydroxide( lime/kalk) disassociates to Calciuim (Ca) and oxide (OH) in water. This occurs until the water reaches full saturation, ie two tsps per gallon . Any more calcium hydroxide will remain undissolved particulates.

The oxide( OH) binds with CO2 in the water to form CAO3 (carbonate/alkalinity). If more CO2 is introduced into the water from the surrounding air or otherwise, the oxide keeps grabbing it making more carbonate alklanity beyond full saturation . This leads to precipitation of calcum and carbonate as calcium carbonate, baiscaly sand that does not redissolve at the ph of the limewater or the aquarium. The end result is "weaker" lime water.

When the surface of the water in a reservoir is left still( ie no stirring or agitation by water additions after initial stirring (in a coverd garbage can for eg), very little to no CO2 is added to the water via gas exchange with the air.,so the limewaer retains it's strengh in solution.

This article has more:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.htm
 
Quick question for tmz, I was using kalk at full saturation on my 40 gallon breeder which was waaayyy overstocked and I couldn't keep up with alk so I had to dose 30 ml a day. Is kalk keeping up with all of your demands 100%
 
It did with just a tbspoon of extra baked baking soda per week up until a couple of months ago. No calcium since I use Coralife a high calcium slat. Growth has been furious and my tanks are overstocked with sps. It takes 2 tablesppons per week now to keep a 9 dkh , so I'm thinking about automating it.
 
Evaporation is one distinct limiting factor.Increase evap + add more lime water = solution

Just for $hitz and giggles,I quit dosing two part 6 days ago.
Increased evap by installing a (fairly strong)extra fan blowing across the sump,adjusted the dosing pump to keep the tank topped with the new evap rate and bingo.My alk has been at 8.7 dkh and rock solid for the last 4 days
calcium is 450 and Mg is stable at 1400.Maintained solely with lime.
The beauty of kalk(at least my source) is the mg stays in range and stable where as with Ca Rx and Two part,this needs constant attention to stay nice.
I will run it like this for a couple weeks then return back to the two part as some of the mineralization routine as I do believe using more then one source for mineral supplementation has many benefits.



It can exist and does.But is it the best method when dealing with a high energy Reef eco system with high daily alkalinity demands ?

What are u using to dose your limewater ? Lm3 ?
Also what were you having to add in terms of alk , ca, and mg to the system a day before u increased evap? How were u dosing this? Lm3 as well through the day?
 
Does just topping off with kalk have a cumulative rising effect on pH or is it just the spikes to watch out for? Any opinions on what size that spike can be with stressing out corals?
 
UtimatelyCa(OH)2, calcium hydroxide( kalk), provides CO3 ,carbonate alkalinity and calcium. However, it uses CO2 + the hydroxide to produce the carbonate. That CO2 use is what raises the pH.

A CACO3 reactor uses high CO2 water wth low pH to dissolve aragonite which is mostly calcium and carbonate along with other elements.

The limewater/kalkwasser has a pH at full saturation of around 12.4.This high pH precipitates out other elements in solution like magnesium, metals and other impurities, leaving realtively pure carbonate alkalinity and calcium.

The effluent from a typical CACO3 reactor is around 6.5 pH. It does not self purify like limewater; so, some useful elements like magnesium as well as potentially undesirable impurities ( depending on what's in the media used ) are dosed in addition to the carbonate and calcium .
 
My demand is low at the moment, but I add 6tsp to 5 gallons via an ato. I average about 5 gallons of evap in 3-4 days.



 
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