Kasey's 60g
- Thread starter kaserpick
- Start date
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
Yesterday, I placed a 6045 in the tank with the 2 x 6055's. If I'm conservative with the flow rates and add 600 gph from my Mag 9.5, then I get around 75x turnover. I know it's not the best rule, but I like using it as a guide.
I just want that crazy flow for good growth. I also added a few things, since things are doing well. One of them is to help increase the bio-load.
I just want that crazy flow for good growth. I also added a few things, since things are doing well. One of them is to help increase the bio-load.
jackson6745
Yeah Yeah
First, I just wanted to point out that we have the same little LED light. The one with the sticker magnet. I love that thing
I love the setup. It's going to be sweet. I think sand would be a good idea for bacterial surface area. Adding more rock might take away from what your want to achieve with your display. I have a buddy who filled a portion of his sump with some european brand ceramic noodles. They are non-zeolit noodles. Just meant to house bacteria.
With your filtration, flow, and lack of surface area, IME you'll be more challenged to get a nutrient level in your reef. A small level of organic phosphate will help the corals.
I love the setup. It's going to be sweet. I think sand would be a good idea for bacterial surface area. Adding more rock might take away from what your want to achieve with your display. I have a buddy who filled a portion of his sump with some european brand ceramic noodles. They are non-zeolit noodles. Just meant to house bacteria.
With your filtration, flow, and lack of surface area, IME you'll be more challenged to get a nutrient level in your reef. A small level of organic phosphate will help the corals.
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
First, I just wanted to point out that we have the same little LED light. The one with the sticker magnet. I love that thing
I love the setup. It's going to be sweet. I think sand would be a good idea for bacterial surface area. Adding more rock might take away from what your want to achieve with your display. I have a buddy who filled a portion of his sump with some european brand ceramic noodles. They are non-zeolit noodles. Just meant to house bacteria.
With your filtration, flow, and lack of surface area, IME you'll be more challenged to get a nutrient level in your reef. A small level of organic phosphate will help the corals.
That's funny. I found it at Lowes, on clearance for $10. I figured I'd give it a shot. I assumed something would be wrong with it or cheap feeling. I was wrong; it's a great little light.
I think you're right about the surface area. I'll definitely be added a sand bed. Besides the extra surface area, it'll just nicer, IMO. As far as the ceramics go, I thought a lot of European reef keepers were having issues with ceramic rock. Of course, I'm talking about live rock substitutes, but I remember it being an issue a few years back. What do you think?
Thanks for the compliments and advice! It's much appreciated. :thumbsup:
jackson6745
Yeah Yeah
As long as it is an inert ceramic, I can't see what harm it could have other than detritus accumulation which is easily cleaned (if you even want to). The small amount of po4 that the detritus trap can provide may be just the thing you need to get deeper colors. IMO live rock rubble will provide the same function if not better. One of the LFS's by me has rockless 4x8 vats and uses filter socks, big skimmer,huge chamber for rock rubble, and 2x 5 gallon buckets cut in half filled with fine sand. It works well on his systems.
jackson6745
Yeah Yeah
Sera Siporax. I just searched it. Boy is that stuff expensive. I had no idea. Live rock rubble seems good to me:wave:
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
So, to keep running with this idea about the rubble, I bought 30lbs of dry rock. My only LFS in this area is pretty bad. That being said, buying good quality live rock rubble is not a great option. If they have some it won't be cured. To be honest, I'm not satisfied with rock work at the moment. I'd like to place my 15lbs of live rock in the sump; this will still give me good bio filtration, while allowing my to make my own scape with the dry rock. I won't use all of it in the DT, probably half. But, what ever is left over will be turned to rubble to be placed in the sump. Depending on how much room I have left in the sump, I'd like to buy another 15lbs. That'll put me at 60lbs total, plus the sand I will be adding in the next couple of weeks.
In the past, I've had no good experiences with dry rock as my only means for biological filtration. Spending time seeding it just didn't seem to do the job. But, this time around I already have good cured live rock running the filtration now. I'll still continue to slowly seed the rock with MB7 and Prodibio's bacteria. The other difference to this scape will be that I won't use cement at all. I don't think I every cured mine properly in the past either. I'll be using acrylic rod and tube and bending it/joining it to make the frame I want. Then, with zip ties and epoxy, I'll build off of the frame with rocks. I'm hoping to re-open my bonsai tree idea that I started in my 15g at the beginning. Wish me luck! The rock's getting sent tomorrow.
In the past, I've had no good experiences with dry rock as my only means for biological filtration. Spending time seeding it just didn't seem to do the job. But, this time around I already have good cured live rock running the filtration now. I'll still continue to slowly seed the rock with MB7 and Prodibio's bacteria. The other difference to this scape will be that I won't use cement at all. I don't think I every cured mine properly in the past either. I'll be using acrylic rod and tube and bending it/joining it to make the frame I want. Then, with zip ties and epoxy, I'll build off of the frame with rocks. I'm hoping to re-open my bonsai tree idea that I started in my 15g at the beginning. Wish me luck! The rock's getting sent tomorrow.
Fsurocks99
New member
Sounds like the tank is coming together man. I wish I had used a similar process with the acrylic rods. I managed to correct all my issues I had with previous tanks expect for the aquascaping. I got close, but I wish I had used less rock...I'm sure you saw kien's aquascaping process (Just another SPS tank). He had some pretty good ideas. I'll definitely be referring back to his thread next time I set up a tank.
It will be interesting to see how using rubble to build the rock work will look compared to using 3 to 10 pound rocks.
I hope it adds another dimension to the scape compared to a drop and done situation.
I hope it adds another dimension to the scape compared to a drop and done situation.
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
Yeah, that's always been a challenge to me. I think I really only liked my 30 breeder, of all my tanks. I'll be trying something like Mattnano's tank a while back. He bent 1/2" diameter acrylic rod and thread it through his rocks. I'm hoping to do something similar.
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
I have a theory about dosing bacteria:
I've noticed that when I dose bacteria according to the tank size that I have, bad things seem to happen. Mainly, I've noticed STN on some corals. And, like clock-work, when I skip a couple of doses, the STN stops. I keep taking the dosage back a little and try to slowly work back to where it 'should' be, according to the manufacturer's instruction. But, in the end, I see negative results when I get to a certain point.
Here's what I know about the idea behind bacteria dosing, or at least what I think I know. Basically, we're talking about my personal speculations. Your tank has a pretty static amount of surface area, unless you're constantly changing things. But, if you're leaving your tank alone, your available surface area doesn't change much. Bacteria multiplies, clings to the surface area in the tank, and calls that home. In my mind, there has to be a point where bacteria has saturated an area. If we accept this idea, then eventually the total surface area of our tank will become saturated with bacteria, and the left over bacteria will end up in the water column. In turn, this excess bacteria is supposed to be removed via skimming and/or water changes. It's at this point that we may need to add more carbon source, in order to grow our population even more. This is where the balancing act begins.
If we add too little carbon source and bacteria, the system is ineffective at achieving those Ultra Low Nutrient System levels that we so very much desire. But, on the flip side, dose too much, and you'll strip your system of nitrogen and phosphorous too much and/or too quickly. Now, I've heard that in order to sustain life and new growth, our systems need a small amount of N and P. That being said, it's reasonable to assume that each system has a specific level of Required N & P. If we dose too much bacteria and carbon source, we can actually cause the levels, even if only for a short time, to dip below the Required N & P. It is at this point that we start seeing the negative impact of dosing too much. Bottom line: Dosing bacteria can be dangerous. It's POWERFUL!
So, now we've identified the risk involved with a bacteria dosing driven system. How do you know where the Safe Zone is? What's too much, and what's too little?
To answer this, we turn to our bacteria's manufacturer's label/instructions for dosing limits. It never fails; the dosage is almost always dependent upon how many gallons your system has. Here's the problem with that: No two systems of equal volume are the same.
The bio-loads and surface area are always different. John might have a 60g reef that produces an amount of N & P that requires a dosage within the manufacturer's recommended range. But, my 60g reef doesn't. It has a little more live stock than what I would typically put in a 15-20g nano. Furthermore, my tank doesn't have the amount of surface area that many other tanks do, of the same size. It's a bare bottom with around 20 pounds of live rock. That being said, if I dose the 'normal' amount, it results in cloudy water from a bacteria bloom. That seems to annoy the animals in the tank, to the point of tissue necrosis in some corals. This is why following the labels and instructions without caution can result in negative results. Should the manufacturer change their instructions to explain that each tank is different? Sure, but when does it stop? You can't explain every situation on the back of a bottle.
I've heard/read this before, and to be honest, I didn't put much stock in it: Start small, and slowly ramp up your dosage. I figured if it was on the label, then it was ok, and maybe with some things that's true. But, with bacteria, I've learned that you have to start off slowly to minimize the risk, and the risk is kind of high.
That being said, I'm making some changes with how I handle this tank, but it's going to be slow. My biggest flaw is I jump into things without thinking and taking my time.
Here's what's happening:
As mentioned before, I'm adding 30 pounds for dry rock and 40 pounds of dry sand. I'm not sure how much of the rock will reside in the DT, but like mentioned before, it should be interesting and look nice. The other thing I'm doing is taking it easy on the dosing for a long while. Things need to settle. After that I'll start the bacteria, SLOWLY. I should have a bit of a buffer with the extra rock and sand. Time will tell.
I've noticed that when I dose bacteria according to the tank size that I have, bad things seem to happen. Mainly, I've noticed STN on some corals. And, like clock-work, when I skip a couple of doses, the STN stops. I keep taking the dosage back a little and try to slowly work back to where it 'should' be, according to the manufacturer's instruction. But, in the end, I see negative results when I get to a certain point.
Here's what I know about the idea behind bacteria dosing, or at least what I think I know. Basically, we're talking about my personal speculations. Your tank has a pretty static amount of surface area, unless you're constantly changing things. But, if you're leaving your tank alone, your available surface area doesn't change much. Bacteria multiplies, clings to the surface area in the tank, and calls that home. In my mind, there has to be a point where bacteria has saturated an area. If we accept this idea, then eventually the total surface area of our tank will become saturated with bacteria, and the left over bacteria will end up in the water column. In turn, this excess bacteria is supposed to be removed via skimming and/or water changes. It's at this point that we may need to add more carbon source, in order to grow our population even more. This is where the balancing act begins.
If we add too little carbon source and bacteria, the system is ineffective at achieving those Ultra Low Nutrient System levels that we so very much desire. But, on the flip side, dose too much, and you'll strip your system of nitrogen and phosphorous too much and/or too quickly. Now, I've heard that in order to sustain life and new growth, our systems need a small amount of N and P. That being said, it's reasonable to assume that each system has a specific level of Required N & P. If we dose too much bacteria and carbon source, we can actually cause the levels, even if only for a short time, to dip below the Required N & P. It is at this point that we start seeing the negative impact of dosing too much. Bottom line: Dosing bacteria can be dangerous. It's POWERFUL!
So, now we've identified the risk involved with a bacteria dosing driven system. How do you know where the Safe Zone is? What's too much, and what's too little?
To answer this, we turn to our bacteria's manufacturer's label/instructions for dosing limits. It never fails; the dosage is almost always dependent upon how many gallons your system has. Here's the problem with that: No two systems of equal volume are the same.
The bio-loads and surface area are always different. John might have a 60g reef that produces an amount of N & P that requires a dosage within the manufacturer's recommended range. But, my 60g reef doesn't. It has a little more live stock than what I would typically put in a 15-20g nano. Furthermore, my tank doesn't have the amount of surface area that many other tanks do, of the same size. It's a bare bottom with around 20 pounds of live rock. That being said, if I dose the 'normal' amount, it results in cloudy water from a bacteria bloom. That seems to annoy the animals in the tank, to the point of tissue necrosis in some corals. This is why following the labels and instructions without caution can result in negative results. Should the manufacturer change their instructions to explain that each tank is different? Sure, but when does it stop? You can't explain every situation on the back of a bottle.
I've heard/read this before, and to be honest, I didn't put much stock in it: Start small, and slowly ramp up your dosage. I figured if it was on the label, then it was ok, and maybe with some things that's true. But, with bacteria, I've learned that you have to start off slowly to minimize the risk, and the risk is kind of high.
That being said, I'm making some changes with how I handle this tank, but it's going to be slow. My biggest flaw is I jump into things without thinking and taking my time.
Here's what's happening:
As mentioned before, I'm adding 30 pounds for dry rock and 40 pounds of dry sand. I'm not sure how much of the rock will reside in the DT, but like mentioned before, it should be interesting and look nice. The other thing I'm doing is taking it easy on the dosing for a long while. Things need to settle. After that I'll start the bacteria, SLOWLY. I should have a bit of a buffer with the extra rock and sand. Time will tell.
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
Quick Update:
Quick Update:
Since I stopped the bacteria and carbon dosing, I've seen a pretty big improvement in PE and even noticeable improvement in color, nothing major, but noticeable.
The rock came in this week, as well as some reef coral epoxy. Tomorrow, I'm going to pick up a heat gun and start bending some acrylic. I'm excited to see how things turn out. I'll post pics a I go.
Quick Update:
Since I stopped the bacteria and carbon dosing, I've seen a pretty big improvement in PE and even noticeable improvement in color, nothing major, but noticeable.
The rock came in this week, as well as some reef coral epoxy. Tomorrow, I'm going to pick up a heat gun and start bending some acrylic. I'm excited to see how things turn out. I'll post pics a I go.
jackson6745
Yeah Yeah
Since I stopped the bacteria and carbon dosing, I've seen a pretty big improvement in PE and even noticeable improvement in color, nothing major, but noticeable.
The rock came in this week, as well as some reef coral epoxy. Tomorrow, I'm going to pick up a heat gun and start bending some acrylic. I'm excited to see how things turn out. I'll post pics a I go.
Looking forward to it:thumbsup:
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
Not quite, I'm still attaching the rocks. It's a slower process than I thought. I bought the sand though. I hope to have at least one structure done this week.
Similar threads
