Keeping SPS is soooo hard and expensive! Thinking about quitting after 2 years.

[kurfer]

I can't keep SPS, when I finally get a frag to take off it dies all of a sudden overnight.

I check my alk daily, it stays between 7.4 and 7.8. My calc is always right around 410 and mag I keep around 1320. I use an Apex to monitor PH which stays stable at 8.1-7.9; my salinity probe keeps me in check as well as my temp probes holding at 79.

No matter what I feed, what I do...the following WILL NOT live in my tank:

Acans, will look good for 2 weeks then shrivel up and NEVER open.
Trachyphyllia & Wellsophyllia, usually shrivel up before 3 days and slowly die while in shrunken state, love to lose color.
Zoas, they just don't stay open and eventually wither away...even the cheap green ones
Acros, basically will never have PE and eventually die through a sudden random RTN event

What I can keep:

Hammer corals - had some die but most have grown nicely
Frogspawns - had a few die but mainly they flourish and grow
Birdnest - grows like crazy
Toadstool - grows
Torch corals - growing like crazy
green star polyps - open and close randomly, seems to be ok? Not really spreading though
xenia - colony seems to have stopped spreading but always open and flowing

Jury still out:

Duncans, some seem ok but often close up
RBTA, have one in my tank...was doing great and split into two, now both shriveled and moving all over

So basically my tank has nice frogspawns, torches and hammer corals but everything else is hit or miss and SPS other than birdsnest and monti caps always seem to die.

Equipment:

150G
2 AI Hydra 52
lifereef skimmer (large model)
2 MP40's
Apex controller with about every option you could imagine
DOS pump dosing BRS 2 part
Carbon/GFO reactor
Ecobak pellets in TLF reactor

Daily dose:

BRS 2 part 38ml of each daily
Korallen Amino acid per instructions daily (6 drops)
Korallen Pohl's Coral Vitalizer (6 drops daily)

1 cup HC GFO monthly
1.4 cup Carbon monthly

reef roids/oyster feast 1-2 times per week

Daily feeding of Neptune crossover via AFS

Nitrates stay around 5
Phosphates .03 and jump to .09 if I turn GFO off

15% weekly water changes with red sea coral pro. Also use a BRS 5 stage RODI.

Not sure what else to do, I spend at least 2 hours a day on my tank and my results are crap.

Over the course of 3 years I have probably lost around $1500 worth of corals.

 

[greaps]

I'm sorry to hear your thinking of quitting. : (

 

[kurfer]

I'm just at wits end, my brain works by educating myself and performing actions based on X.

In this hobby, it's not as simple as making sure numbers are X. Lots of expensive trial and error and waiting only to be let down. I wish I could make more sense out of it but I can't!

It's so easy for people to say make sure your Alk is X, Calc is X and Mag is X. That's the very very very easy part. It always seems like there is some phantom parameter that's always missing. Part of me thinks there is alot of luck in this hobby. Some random hidden parameter that decides whether your tank is amazing vs mediocre.

 

[devildog12210]

Red Sea Coral Pro has a high Alk. If you are using that you could be having spikes after your water changes?

 

[ghostman]

You seem to have all the right equipment to successfully keep SPS as well as the other corals. I have just a couple of quick questions about your setup. What is the specific gravity of your tank? Do you use a refractometer? The salinity probe of the Apex may not be such a useful tool in that respect. What test kits do you use? I personally like Salifert, and Hanna for PO4. What intensity do you have your lights set at? Acans like low light, and SPS like higher light so you have to aquascape accordingly. Maybe a LFS can double check your test results to verify the numbers. It's not uncommon to have a bad test kit that screws everything up.

 

[kurfer]

Red Sea Coral Pro has a high Alk. If you are using that you could be having spikes after your water changes?

Never have I had that issue after wc. Never have I had my coral pro show over 9 alk after mixing.

I thought my refratometer was off in the past. I own 3 of them:

Sybon, Red Sea and some LFS special. All calibrated using 35ppt fluid and I have taken samples to 3 different LFS to confirm salinity. Actually posted a thread about calibration a while back over this very issue.

My red sea coral pro always mixes at 380 calc, 7.0 alk and 1100 mag. Sometimes I see 9.0 alk, water changes are not big enough at 15% to make that much difference. I ALWAYS test alk after my WC on Sundays...I also use 3 test kits to do it:

Red sea, salifert, and my Hannah alk which is always on the low end.

 

[PhaneSoul]

Have you ever considered chemical warefare? I mean I know ur running carbon but IMO it's not gonna do the job well. There is a reason all your euyphilla are doing better then the rest. It looks like your softies are almost starving, your lps are dominant and sps just can't cut it. Not to mention it's very hard to keep sps and softies and have the correct nutrient levels that will suite both.

Focus on your must haves and build the environment around them. If you want sps focus on providing a ultra low nutrient system. Barebottom works well for this. If you want lps/sps then focus on what they need. Nutrients. Let there be some, just not an abundance of them. That's why sand is good for lps/softies but can really mess with sps.

Go back to the basics and focus on what you really want

 

[kurfer]

You seem to have all the right equipment to successfully keep SPS as well as the other corals. I have just a couple of quick questions about your setup. What is the specific gravity of your tank? Do you use a refractometer? The salinity probe of the Apex may not be such a useful tool in that respect. What test kits do you use? I personally like Salifert, and Hanna for PO4. What intensity do you have your lights set at? Acans like low light, and SPS like higher light so you have to aquascape accordingly. Maybe a LFS can double check your test results to verify the numbers. It's not uncommon to have a bad test kit that screws everything up.

Thanks for the reply.

I keep my tank at 35ppt, using 3 refratometer's calibrated via solution and LFS (3 different stores). I really only use the Apex as a tool to measure my change in salinity and rather ignore the actual number (reads 36.8) calibration on that tool is spotty at best. I just like a reference number to see how much it changes after WC and to alert in case of ATO failure.

3 alk test kits...dont keep them long I test pretty much daily so I go through them alot.

SPS stay on top of rocks, acans on sandbed. The one in the shade is actually the worst off.

Lights are:

2 hydra 52 12 inches above water and here are my light settings:

 

[Nano sapiens]

Never have I had that issue after wc. Never have I had my coral pro show over 9 alk after mixing.

My red sea coral pro always mixes at 380 calc, 7.0 alk and 1100 mag. Sometimes I see 9.0 alk, water changes are not big enough at 15% to make that much difference. I ALWAYS test alk after my WC on Sundays...I also use 3 test kits to do it:

Red sea, salifert, and my Hannah alk which is always on the low end.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Maybe we can find a solution.

What I notice here is that many corals known to be tolerant of water chemistry chages are doing the best, but not all. SPS (Acros) and many Zoas are not tolerant of rapid parameter changes, that's for sure.

Your numbers regarding Red Sea Coral Pro salt are very unusual. The manufacturer's specs for 'Coral Pro' show that at SG 1.026 (35 ppm salinity):

alkalinity should be around 12.3 – 12.7 dKh / 4.4 – 4.5 meq/l
calcium should be around 455 – 475 mg/l
magnesium should be around 1360 – 1420 mg/l

My test kit numbers were similar to the manufacturer's when I used this salt exclusively. Because of the very high alkalinity and calcium levels, I now mix it with Red Sea 'Blue Bucket' to avoid much of the alkalinity spike from water changes. When my Coral Pro is finished, I plan use the blue bucket exclusively.

Another thing you can do is change from 15% water change all at once to around 7% x 2, within the same time period. I changed to 5% 2x/week, from my old 10%/week and it has really helped cut down on the stress that occurs with water changes. You could even change a small percentage daily (if you have the time), which is the least stressful of all for the inhabitants.

I believe that you can overcome this issue by smoothing out some of the stressors, so perhaps try a lower alkalinity/calcium salt (at NSW salinity) and a modified water change routine and see if the situation improves.

 

[3yellowtangs]

I did the same thing but because of time. Its a time consuming hobby. I went to softies only. Its easier. And everyone elsenlikes my tank better.

 

[kurfer]

Here is the full tank shot, all the open space on the right larger island is from me pulling dead SPS. Bottom sanded corals come and go, if you look close you can see my zoa rocks all closed up. Left side softy island is doing well. Right side no so much...

The smaller frags some are RTNing as of today, need to remove about 4 of them.

I have about 700-1000 bristle worms in the sand/rock so I know nutrients are ok?

I don't feed heavy at all, not sure how my nitrates are 5 and pos is .03 after using GFO/Carbon and Ecobak pellets

Birdsnest on top left is my fastest grower, was the size of my finger when I got it 4 months ago. Now it's huge...

 

[reefwiser]

Just enjoy what you can keep in your aquarium. Do not feel like a failure because you have trouble with one species of coral.

 

[Guygettnby]

How old is this current tank? Do you scrap all the walls to remove coraline algae? How often do you feed and how much? How many fish do you have in the tank? I only see 1 in the picture.

You could be dealing with chemical warfare in the tank, but that isn't a for sure thing. I have a very mixed reef tank and I am not having an issue there. I do however have a good amount of fish in my tank and I make sure everything in my tank is fed well. But I don't over feed either.

 

[Nano sapiens]

1. If you can maintain that many brstleworms, then the tank has nutrient input.

2. Your nitrate and phosphate levels are quite standard these days and are acceptable (nitrate could be a bit lower, though, but not a deal breaker). Do you have large detritus deposits (sand bed, under live rock, sump...wherever). I control the level of both NO3 and PO4 with water changes and detritus removal processes exclusively (no media of any kind is used) and have done so for over three decades in various sized tanks.

 

[twon8]

Flow?

 

[kurfer]

The only thing that collects in the sand bed are empty shells and small fragments of rock that break off. My sump has what looks to be small brown dust particles, hard to vacuum even the shop vac.

I only scrape front wall, the sides and back I leave alone since it's an in-wall build and they are tinted limo tint on backside.

Flow is strong, 2 MP40's at reefcrest 85%

Fish:

1 yellow tang
1 blue tang
1 six line wrasse
1 orange clown
2 black occ clowns
1 blue chromis
1 royal gramma

Is it safe to assume chemical warfare could be happening from all types of coral even the zoas? I thought a mixed reef really only had to worry about leathers (which I was tempted to remove and give away to my LFS)

 

[kurfer]

Just enjoy what you can keep in your aquarium. Do not feel like a failure because you have trouble with one species of coral.

Noticed you're from Louisville! Me too!

 

[hoooop54]

I feel for you. This hobby can be frustrating at times. I have to say though, your tank has a lot of great corals in it. It is easy for us to see the flaws on our tanks, but from the outside, it looks pretty good.

 

[Pife]

You don't have much coralline on the back walls for them not to be scraped. If you can't grow it then your system is not doing well enough for sps imho. I would think you are having a huge spike in alkalinity after a water change. I have seen this in several tanks when people couldn't put it all together to successfully keep sps.

 

[Pife]

where do you all shop in Louisville? (lfs) I'm there every other month and haven't found a good store.