Kessil a360x Cost and Features ***

[Reef2Land]

One of the employees here posted the below on our Instagram page earlier. We dumped a decent amount of money into making sure we test all the major light brands over the next two weeks, so we'll be adding to this thread over that time.

For those that don't know Apogee is an amazing company. Their light meters run around $400-$500 - but we wanted to ensure we got the most accurate, in-depth analysis when it comes to the light testing we'll be doing. Keep in mind we were 100% Kessil supporters until the a360x was released. But, then we sold a ton of them within a week of them getting released and the majority of customers came back asking questions we simply didn't have the answer to (like when the WiFi dongle is being released), or they told us about things they wish Kessil had done differently with the release.

"The release of the 360x really started bugging me and everyone at the shop. $450 for a 90 watt light where, once again, there is no way to link the lights outside of purchasing accessories. $25 more for the K-Link unit cables when they followed the release of the lights This means essentially $475 a piece or $1050 for 2 lights, the Spectral X Controller, and 2 K-Link cables, to run 180 watts over roughly 4 feet of tank space - from the feedback we received from customers that 24" per light was MAX coverage. That's IF someone wants their lights to sync up right now, the wireless dongles aren't anywhere in sight, so people have to basically throw away money by using the K-Links to connect their lights till the dongles are released. If I had to guess the dongles might cost what, $35 a piece? If Kessil is so advanced WHY can't they just build the WiFi IN TO the body and stop with the list of accessories?

By the time you're done if a customer wants to connect 4 lights over a 72" tank they've spent $2000 to do a 6 foot tank for 360 total watts? Or $1525 for 3 lights with 270 total watts. Which all will cost even more when the WiFi dongle finally comes out. But, the AP700 is the same wattage with built in controllability and WiFi for only $799.

We just yanked most our Kessils and went Ecotech Marine and so far these things are blowing us away. $799 for 195 watts of power with easy programming that has a ton of features, great coloration, wireless syncing between lights, and a very attractive design, which is all standard. The AP700 is $799 and the XR30 Pros seem to talk between the lights better and have a wider coverage front to back with 15 more watts. Even the XR15 ($399) has 5 more watts then the Kessil A360x without having to purchase cables and dongles and controllers and WTFever else. 2 Hydra 26s are only $349 each at 90 watts each.

There's been a change of guard here at Reef2land. We're gonna be using Apogee testing equipment this coming week to test every light brand and I REALLY hope Kessil can out perform their less expensive counterparts for that price."

HERE we sold so many lights because we have our own K-Link cables and we're just giving the cables away with the lights because we can't believe the dongles aren't even released yet.

 

[Amatuer21]

Looking forward to what you guys come up with. Following..........

 

[nycman]

Following this.

I am using GHL Mitras 7000s on both my reef tank (4) and freshwater planted (3). Am now starting a freshwater Lake Malawi African Cichlid tank and was seriously considering 2 A360Xs over a 72L 30W 30H. The point was not about getting a bright light, Mbunas don't need it and it encourages algae. The point was to have a tiny pair of cool looking lights suspended over a rimless tank that allows programming of sunset, sunrise, clouds, extreme shimmer and ability to program high K values that Mbuna people like. My understanding is that the A360 has 24" spread, but the new A360X is more like 36". Since I am not keeping SPS, and don't at all care about shadowing, I had my heart set on these lights for my configuration.

 

[Green Chromis]

Following this.

I am using GHL Mitras 7000s on both my reef tank (4) and freshwater planted (3). Am now starting a freshwater Lake Malawi African Cichlid tank and was seriously considering 2 A360Xs over a 72L 30W 30H. The point was not about getting a bright light, Mbunas don't need it and it encourages algae. The point was to have a tiny pair of cool looking lights suspended over a rimless tank that allows programming of sunset, sunrise, clouds, extreme shimmer and ability to program high K values that Mbuna people like. My understanding is that the A360 has 24" spread, but the new A360X is more like 36". Since I am not keeping SPS, and don't at all care about shadowing, I had my heart set on these lights for my configuration.

:fish1: Hi, I am just a little curious, why would not want to use Mitras over the new tank, as you could probably get away with only two if you ran them parallel to the tank. :fish1:

 

[nycman]

:fish1: Hi, I am just a little curious, why would not want to use Mitras over the new tank, as you could probably get away with only two if you ran them parallel to the tank. :fish1:

That is a good option. Was thinking the Kessils would be smaller, less expensive, and provide more shimmer

 

[Reef2Land]

That is a good option. Was thinking the Kessils would be smaller, less expensive, and provide more shimmer

So you just want the Shimmer and the ability to illuminate the tank, but really there are no light demanding tank inhabitants?

One thing I have ALWAYS wondered about Kessil is if the shimmer has the potential to stress certain tank members out. We're going to find that out next month. If someone keeps, just for example Tridacna clams in a tank and they wave their hand over the tank it causes the clams to close up. How is shimmer, which is basically a shadow from the movement of water (as far as I know) any different? We're going to stick a couple cameras that register movement on a few clams next month and see if they react to the shimmer of Kessil lights more then other lights without the same feature. There's a lot of tank members that register shadows as a potential thread being nearby. I can't imagine how having a constant flickering of them would be helpful. Don't know though.

 

[Reef2Land]

Did Reef Central take away the ability to edit? lol Threat not THREAD. But most of us here are curious if the shimmer effect causes stress to tank members that react to shadows and movement. About to find out next month.

 

[slief]

So you just want the Shimmer and the ability to illuminate the tank, but really there are no light demanding tank inhabitants?

One thing I have ALWAYS wondered about Kessil is if the shimmer has the potential to stress certain tank members out. We're going to find that out next month. If someone keeps, just for example Tridacna clams in a tank and they wave their hand over the tank it causes the clams to close up. How is shimmer, which is basically a shadow from the movement of water (as far as I know) any different? We're going to stick a couple cameras that register movement on a few clams next month and see if they react to the shimmer of Kessil lights more then other lights without the same feature. There's a lot of tank members that register shadows as a potential thread being nearby. I can't imagine how having a constant flickering of them would be helpful. Don't know though.

I’ve never seen any adverse impacts on tank inhabitants whether fish or clams as a result of the shimmer from Kessils. And I’ve run Kessil 360’s on various tanks since the WE’s were released. Also, as a long time scuba diver, the shimmer from the Kessils is very similar to the shimmer one would see on a reef when diving. In fact, the natural shimmer on the reef is often even greater depending on the surface conditions of the ocean and or the amount of surface agitation in the display.

 

[Reef2Land]

I've never seen any adverse impacts on tank inhabitants whether fish or clams as a result of the shimmer from Kessils. And I've run Kessil 360's on various tanks since the WE's were released. Also, as a long time scuba diver, the shimmer from the Kessils is very similar to the shimmer one would see on a reef when diving. In fact, the natural shimmer on the reef is often even greater depending on the surface conditions of the ocean and or the amount of surface agitation in the display.

Oh for sure. If you look at our site you'll see that's a selling point we use in every Kessil description. Been diving for 25 years...

https://www.reef2land.com/collectio...ium-lighting/products/kessil-a360ne-tuna-blue

None-the-less clams (and some other tank inhabitants) do still react to shadows and movement as a way to protect themselves. That would mean it's stressed when it does it. The clam doesn't have the ability to tell what the movement is or where the shadows are coming from, they just react to them. They don't sit there and go "Oh that's just the Kessil." Lol To anyone here if a tank member protects itself when movement and shadows are present one might assume that a source of constant movement and shadows might stress it out constantly - we don't know. We're going to test it to find out though and record the clams movements over the light cycles for 3-4 days.

 

[cody6766]

^^^Same here. I ran Kessil A350s over my 120g and my 60g for a number of years. While not perfect, they were good point-source lights. I preferred them with T5 supplementation, but they did alright as a pair when run closely together. They're not a light I'd recommend someone buy new when a Radion is priced about the same as a pair, but I would recommend them to someone buying used for a good price, and willing to work to get their tank looking how they want it.

Basically, I'm not mad that I bought them and would use them for something in the future, but I've found a better solution for my tank now (T5) and won't be buying more.

 

[ca1ore]

Let me offer a somewhat contrary view. I bought two of the 360X and controller. Am I blown away, no; but do I think they are an nice improvement over the older models, yes. I DO think that Kessil ought to include a k link a cable with each light, but they do not so do yourself a favor and just buy a USB C cable off amazon for $5. It was also made quite clear that the wireless dongle and add on lenses would not be available right away, so that just required a little reading ..... The whole shimmer = stress thing is just silly.

$450 per light plus controller IS at the exepensive end and time will tell whether Kessil have priced themselves out of the market or not. The most obvious competition, the Radion 15 Pro offers wireless for less and can be programmed without an add on controller (though ReefLink is a useful addition). I run both Radion and Kessil and find them broadly equivalent in performance.

 

[Reef2Land]

Let me offer a somewhat contrary view. I bought two of the 360X and controller. Am I blown away, no; but do I think they are an nice improvement over the older models, yes. I DO think that Kessil ought to include a k link a cable with each light, but they do not so do yourself a favor and just buy a USB C cable off amazon for $5. It was also made quite clear that the wireless dongle and add on lenses would not be available right away, so that just required a little reading ..... The whole shimmer = stress thing is just silly.

$450 per light plus controller IS at the exepensive end and time will tell whether Kessil have priced themselves out of the market or not. The most obvious competition, the Radion 15 Pro offers wireless for less and can be programmed without an add on controller (though ReefLink is a useful addition). I run both Radion and Kessil and find them broadly equivalent in performance.

I must ask how it is silly? Fish swims over a clam and it closes, that happens with a number of things. Clam doesn't see the fish, it sees the shadow from the fish. So how it is any different when a water reflection is causing constant shadowing due to "shimmer"? If we can see the shadows from the shimmer it means the clam can as well. However, the clam doesn't have the ability to rationalize that the shadow being cast over it in rapid succession is coming from a light.

 

[cody6766]

On a natural reef or in a tank (Kessil, other LED, MH, etc), I have never seen a clam close or flinch due to a shimmer shadow. Once they settle into the 'normal' of their new tank they usually stop flinching unless something is really close or the shadow is very abrupt and solid (hand over the tank). I assume the same goes for a natural reef since the clams I swam over and photographed didn't flinch unless I stuck the Go Pro too close. Lastly, people have been successful keeping clams under MH for many years, and they shimmer as much or more than a Kessil.

I'd probably buy a different LED light over Kessil, but not because of their shimmer.

 

[nikon187]

BOTH radion xr15 and hydra 26hd are cheaper and can do more right from the box. And no the shimmer wont cause a clam any extra stress. After a few months the clam prob wont react much to shadows unless you go to move it.

 

[ca1ore]

On a natural reef or in a tank (Kessil, other LED, MH, etc), I have never seen a clam close or flinch due to a shimmer shadow. Once they settle into the 'normal' of their new tank they usually stop flinching unless something is really close or the shadow is very abrupt and solid (hand over the tank). I assume the same goes for a natural reef since the clams I swam over and photographed didn't flinch unless I stuck the Go Pro too close. Lastly, people have been successful keeping clams under MH for many years, and they shimmer as much or more than a Kessil.

I'd probably buy a different LED light over Kessil, but not because of their shimmer.

Yup, that about sums it up! Any adequately intense point source light, in the presence of water surface agitation, will result in shimmer - including the sun.

 

[Reef2Land]

Yup, that about sums it up! Any adequately intense point source light, in the presence of water surface agitation, will result in shimmer - including the sun.

Sun and most other light sources are more diverse when it comes to how broad the beam actually is. It's more spread out. Kessil prides itself in the fact their light source is more intensified, saying it's like a jet or something from a garden hose. Talking about how the beam of most lights spreads out before hitting the plant or something while the Dense Matrix acts like an intense jet that hits the soil. Now, to me it seems like that would just expose the roots and dig the soil up. Kessil can probably cover a 3 foot x 2 foot area with an AP700, but is the light more insified over a 4 inch area because of the "beam effect" - don't know, gonna find out next week though. I'd rather have a light where the intensity of the light is more uniform throughout a 3 foot area and gradually decreases then one that's most intense for 5-7 inches then drops 25% for every half a foot more it goes out. Should be interesting.

 

[eutimio]

They somewhat mitigated the harsh spotlight effect and crazy shimmer with the diffusers for the AP-700. I used a freshwater Kessil A360WE on my planted tank and the shimmer was as natural as can be with minimal surface agitation.
But the tuna blue on my reef had to go. For me at least, a Kessil on a shallow reef tank is just too much shimmer...so much so that it made me look away when the Vortech was moving a lot of water.
Taller tanks can get away with it.
And I agree that once a clam settles in, it won’t react much to anything other than physically touching the mantle/shell.
At some point I thought my 6” maxima was going downhill when it stopped reacting to shadows. Turns out it just didn’t care anymore and the only times it’s reacting is when lights are off or the starry blenny nips it’s mantle once in a while.

 

[JWClark]

On the whole shimmer may cause stress thing, it has to be noted that, while clams don't "see the fish", they certainly can distinguish between intensity change from shimmer and that caused by the real shadow of a fish.

If a stimulus is constant and never produces harm then organisms generally become habituated to that stimulus and no longer respond. Most likely, what happens with shimmer.