Kick Ich worked for me!!!
- Thread starter AmandaJ
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Sloeber
Active member
hi amanda
keep a close eye on these fish. cryptocaryon has a complicated lifecycle, and actually confuses many hobbiest. it is natural for the cysts to drop off of the fish. infact, this is thier reproductive system kickin in gear. you may witness a reinfestation in about 7 - 10 days. many times, this is much worse than the original outbreak. you may wish to syphon off the rocks and substrate. this is where the cysts settle. good luck.
HTH
henry
keep a close eye on these fish. cryptocaryon has a complicated lifecycle, and actually confuses many hobbiest. it is natural for the cysts to drop off of the fish. infact, this is thier reproductive system kickin in gear. you may witness a reinfestation in about 7 - 10 days. many times, this is much worse than the original outbreak. you may wish to syphon off the rocks and substrate. this is where the cysts settle. good luck.
HTH
henry
Biosystems
New member
Amanda:
Is the kick ick a capsacin containing product? If so heed hcs3's advice, b/c this would only cause the parasite to be sloughed off with the slime coat on the fish. Some also contain carbohydrates to get the ick to be somewhat dormant. The problem with all these homeopathic remedies (garlic, capsicin,sugar, etc) in a reef tank is that they simply do not kill the parasite, but prevent it from physically appearing on the host. Keep us up to date as I am interested in your long term results. Also if you get a chance, let us know the ingredients if they are printed.
Thanks,
Tim
Is the kick ick a capsacin containing product? If so heed hcs3's advice, b/c this would only cause the parasite to be sloughed off with the slime coat on the fish. Some also contain carbohydrates to get the ick to be somewhat dormant. The problem with all these homeopathic remedies (garlic, capsicin,sugar, etc) in a reef tank is that they simply do not kill the parasite, but prevent it from physically appearing on the host. Keep us up to date as I am interested in your long term results. Also if you get a chance, let us know the ingredients if they are printed.
Thanks,
Tim
Biosystems
New member
Amanda:
Thanks for the information. Most imadazole compounds that I am familiar with are antihelmintics or kill some ectoparasites such as gill flukes, leeches, and insect larvae (Benzimidazoles, Probenzimidazoles, Imidazothiazoles,dimetridazole, l-beta hydroxyethyl-2-methyl-5-nitroimidazole). All of these are potent killers of intestinal worms, which makes me wonder if the product label cautions against its use in reef tanks that of course contain (worms, fan worms, etc. as well as crustaceans). Are there any warnings about possible problems with this product. I will look up more information when I get a chance, b/c I am very interested, but is there a web page for the product so I can see some product literature/claims. I hope by the end of the weekend that i will be familiar with the compound and its actions.
Thanks again for the information,
Tim
[This message has been edited by Biosystems (edited 11-05-1999).]
Thanks for the information. Most imadazole compounds that I am familiar with are antihelmintics or kill some ectoparasites such as gill flukes, leeches, and insect larvae (Benzimidazoles, Probenzimidazoles, Imidazothiazoles,dimetridazole, l-beta hydroxyethyl-2-methyl-5-nitroimidazole). All of these are potent killers of intestinal worms, which makes me wonder if the product label cautions against its use in reef tanks that of course contain (worms, fan worms, etc. as well as crustaceans). Are there any warnings about possible problems with this product. I will look up more information when I get a chance, b/c I am very interested, but is there a web page for the product so I can see some product literature/claims. I hope by the end of the weekend that i will be familiar with the compound and its actions.
Thanks again for the information,
Tim
[This message has been edited by Biosystems (edited 11-05-1999).]
Biosystems
New member
Yeah Amanda,
It is interesting that they list "will not hurt aerobic bacteria such as nitrosom/bac", b/c I know that while derivatives of this drug will not affect aerobics or facultative anaerobes, they will completely destroy obligate anaerobes (many of which are important in deep sand beds and live rock for reduction of nitrate). Although many more of these organisms are facultative anaerobes so it shouldn't do too much damage to this process. It is very interesting-at least to me. Thanks for the information. I will do a few searches on it, b/c there seems to be alot of information lacking in my mind as to its effectiveness on ciliated protozoans (cyrpto) and dinoflagellates (oodinium).
Thanks again,
Tim
It is interesting that they list "will not hurt aerobic bacteria such as nitrosom/bac", b/c I know that while derivatives of this drug will not affect aerobics or facultative anaerobes, they will completely destroy obligate anaerobes (many of which are important in deep sand beds and live rock for reduction of nitrate). Although many more of these organisms are facultative anaerobes so it shouldn't do too much damage to this process. It is very interesting-at least to me. Thanks for the information. I will do a few searches on it, b/c there seems to be alot of information lacking in my mind as to its effectiveness on ciliated protozoans (cyrpto) and dinoflagellates (oodinium).
Thanks again,
Tim
The Keeper
New member
I'm into my 2nd day of treatment with Kick Ick, so far so good. Day one I noticed that my purple tang and flame angel had spots..poured in little under double the directed dosage and now day two, no spots. I will continue to treat per directed, returning to the recommended dosage of 2oz per 20 gal. So far have not noticed anything different with the corals or shrooms, they still are expanding fully. Tank inverts consist of various leathers, elagance, mettalic brain, flower pot, plate coral, red shrooms, metallic shrooms, green hairy pink tipped shrooms, green button polyps, yellow polyps,
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Ahh the joys of reef keeping.
-Dave
www.geocities.com/reyner1/frontpage.html
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Ahh the joys of reef keeping.
-Dave
www.geocities.com/reyner1/frontpage.html
youbetyourwrasse
New member
I have heard nothing but praise for this product on 4 other BB. It just seems too good to be true. I once was licensed by the State of California in Branch II and III of pest control, and what I know about chemicals is that small changes yield huge results. I never thought they'd have a real flea control product and then all of a sudden there's Advantage (R) and no more fleas, really. I hope I never need Kick Ich but boy, if I do I'll try it. Snake oil or cure? The feedback definatly suggests the latter. (Who know maybe 6 months after treatment all the fish explode, releasing some noxious gas into the atmosphere...)
Darlene.
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Darlene.
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Hello everyone,
My name is Sam and I am the President of Ruby Reef. I thought it appropriate that I jump in here and take over reply duties from Amanda. But first, thanks Amanda for opening this thread. We love to hear success stories from hobbyists, and we appreciate your effort to share the news.
Tim (BioSciences),
I think we met at the Bakker trade show in Chicago about three years ago. Anyway, send me a telephone # (email: rubyreef@erols.com), I'll call you and we can talk shop. Kick-Ich is reef safe because it is extremely specific for ich. As such, it has no effect on other parasites such as dinoflagellates, flukes, bacteria or fungi. It is safe for all reef inverts including fan worms, etc., and does not affect biofiltration in any detectable way, including extremely sensitive electronic measurements taken by Carl DelFavero on FOWLR/LS tanks recieving megadosages over sustained periods.
Keeper,
Your "loading dose" approach to treatment isn't a bad idea. However, while the 2X dosage is safe for your tank, using more than 1.5X at one application under any circumstances is probably wasting your money. Let me know via this thread if you want more information about dosing regimens.
Dianne,
Ask Marc at North Coast Marines to send or fax you a tech memo (is there one in his on-line catalog?). Alternatively, send a fax number to our office at the above email address and we'll send you information. Call us at 301-622-3776 if you have any application questions for which you need quick answers.
Sam
My name is Sam and I am the President of Ruby Reef. I thought it appropriate that I jump in here and take over reply duties from Amanda. But first, thanks Amanda for opening this thread. We love to hear success stories from hobbyists, and we appreciate your effort to share the news.
Tim (BioSciences),
I think we met at the Bakker trade show in Chicago about three years ago. Anyway, send me a telephone # (email: rubyreef@erols.com), I'll call you and we can talk shop. Kick-Ich is reef safe because it is extremely specific for ich. As such, it has no effect on other parasites such as dinoflagellates, flukes, bacteria or fungi. It is safe for all reef inverts including fan worms, etc., and does not affect biofiltration in any detectable way, including extremely sensitive electronic measurements taken by Carl DelFavero on FOWLR/LS tanks recieving megadosages over sustained periods.
Keeper,
Your "loading dose" approach to treatment isn't a bad idea. However, while the 2X dosage is safe for your tank, using more than 1.5X at one application under any circumstances is probably wasting your money. Let me know via this thread if you want more information about dosing regimens.
Dianne,
Ask Marc at North Coast Marines to send or fax you a tech memo (is there one in his on-line catalog?). Alternatively, send a fax number to our office at the above email address and we'll send you information. Call us at 301-622-3776 if you have any application questions for which you need quick answers.
Sam
Biosystems
New member
Sam (Rubyreef):
This weekend I took a road trip around LA looking for corals and I found your product at an LFS. I appreciate your offer of talking shop, and may take you up on the offer. I am sure that we have not met as I have not been associated with the fish industry for some time except as a hobbiest. I also work only in human medicine, but have a little background in this area b/c my PhD was done in a Dept. of Vet. Micro. and Paras. I purchased some of your product as well as two crypto infected blue tangs (an all too often occurence in these parts) that I will confirm that the parasite is indeed crypto. I have begun treatment as per your instructions and will see how it goes. I have also begun looking into toxicity effects on worms, fans, and soft corals in a small seperate system with some extra corals that were recently propped, a red duster fire rock, some echinoderms, and a very productive LS bed. Although it will not be very scientific it will straighten a few things in my mind and that is what I am most interested in as a hobbiest. I must say that the product at the LFS was very reasonably priced, especially for the quantity that I received (it appears to be about a liter or 1.5 L although it is not labeled and it is much cheaper than replacing a fish). So I will see how it goes and then possibly set up a better trial at a later date if I am satisfied in my mind it is safe and may be effective-that is if I can find takers for all these much more healthy blue tangs.
The only question that I have for you at this point as I would rather do a few more searches before speaking with you is if it does not treat dinoflagellates and amyloodinium is a dinoflagellate that is all too often mis ID'd as ich (in this hobby any white spot is incorrectly ID'd as ich due to a cross over from the FW hobby) whether it be b/c their is a double infection (crypto/A. oodinium)in the animal or b/c the amyloodinium has spread from the gills, shouldn't the product literature be ID'd to treat only crypto infections. Probably a mute point since anyone that has A. oodinium infection most likely will lose the fish anyway within a couple of days no matter what type of treatment offered and before they can purchase your product.
Anyways thanks for the information and I will be looking forward to researching your product further in the scientific literature and in my non-scientific tanks.
Tim
This weekend I took a road trip around LA looking for corals and I found your product at an LFS. I appreciate your offer of talking shop, and may take you up on the offer. I am sure that we have not met as I have not been associated with the fish industry for some time except as a hobbiest. I also work only in human medicine, but have a little background in this area b/c my PhD was done in a Dept. of Vet. Micro. and Paras. I purchased some of your product as well as two crypto infected blue tangs (an all too often occurence in these parts) that I will confirm that the parasite is indeed crypto. I have begun treatment as per your instructions and will see how it goes. I have also begun looking into toxicity effects on worms, fans, and soft corals in a small seperate system with some extra corals that were recently propped, a red duster fire rock, some echinoderms, and a very productive LS bed. Although it will not be very scientific it will straighten a few things in my mind and that is what I am most interested in as a hobbiest. I must say that the product at the LFS was very reasonably priced, especially for the quantity that I received (it appears to be about a liter or 1.5 L although it is not labeled and it is much cheaper than replacing a fish). So I will see how it goes and then possibly set up a better trial at a later date if I am satisfied in my mind it is safe and may be effective-that is if I can find takers for all these much more healthy blue tangs.
The only question that I have for you at this point as I would rather do a few more searches before speaking with you is if it does not treat dinoflagellates and amyloodinium is a dinoflagellate that is all too often mis ID'd as ich (in this hobby any white spot is incorrectly ID'd as ich due to a cross over from the FW hobby) whether it be b/c their is a double infection (crypto/A. oodinium)in the animal or b/c the amyloodinium has spread from the gills, shouldn't the product literature be ID'd to treat only crypto infections. Probably a mute point since anyone that has A. oodinium infection most likely will lose the fish anyway within a couple of days no matter what type of treatment offered and before they can purchase your product.
Anyways thanks for the information and I will be looking forward to researching your product further in the scientific literature and in my non-scientific tanks.
Tim
Well, great! This should be interesting. I congratulate everyone involved for keeping this discussion civil. This is a topic that can get out of hand fast, no one knows that better than me. 
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Larry M
View a list of RC Member's websites at:
http://www.reefcentral.com/membersites.html
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Larry M
View a list of RC Member's websites at:
http://www.reefcentral.com/membersites.html
hesaias
Premium Member
This thread took a poor turn elsewhere, but this is the way to find out the low-down on new treatments for folks w\reeftanks who can't catch the fish.
I have not seen the product, but am interested in its ingredents(sp). Having used Sano with both ends of the spectrum as far as results go I am sorta curious as to the q-tank apps of this product as a way to easily rid new fish of Ich. Not a shortcut, just some extra insurance
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hesaias
my homepage
I have not seen the product, but am interested in its ingredents(sp). Having used Sano with both ends of the spectrum as far as results go I am sorta curious as to the q-tank apps of this product as a way to easily rid new fish of Ich. Not a shortcut, just some extra insurance
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hesaias
my homepage
Tim,
You are exactly right about the labelling oversight. In fact, earlier today I entered a post on another BB that covered the ich + amyloodinia scenerio in a paragraph dedicated to the drawbacks of a highly specific water treatment. We will correct this oversight, i.e., add a warning panel, at the next printing. We will probably also include information that Kick-Ich and another Ruby Reef water treatment, i.e., Rally, can be used together safely in a reef tank to provide blanket protection. Rally is effective for controlling dinoflagellates, flukes and bacterial fin rot. Rally can reverse Amyloodinia symptoms in as little as a few hours if you get it in the tank before the gills are destroyed.
Hesaias,
I have to run right now, but I'll come back later and give you the scoop on Q-tank regimens. A number of importers routinely use Kick-Ich and/or Rally in Q-tanks and, by request, we are now supplying Rally to Asian and S. American export stations where it is added directly to packing bags.
Later,
Sam
You are exactly right about the labelling oversight. In fact, earlier today I entered a post on another BB that covered the ich + amyloodinia scenerio in a paragraph dedicated to the drawbacks of a highly specific water treatment. We will correct this oversight, i.e., add a warning panel, at the next printing. We will probably also include information that Kick-Ich and another Ruby Reef water treatment, i.e., Rally, can be used together safely in a reef tank to provide blanket protection. Rally is effective for controlling dinoflagellates, flukes and bacterial fin rot. Rally can reverse Amyloodinia symptoms in as little as a few hours if you get it in the tank before the gills are destroyed.
Hesaias,
I have to run right now, but I'll come back later and give you the scoop on Q-tank regimens. A number of importers routinely use Kick-Ich and/or Rally in Q-tanks and, by request, we are now supplying Rally to Asian and S. American export stations where it is added directly to packing bags.
Later,
Sam
Biosystems
New member
Larry and hesaias:
I too saw the post on the other board and the direction it turned. If anyone has taken my comments as an attack that is not at all my intention. My intentions with disease are quite simple-to determine the cause and the possible cures that have the least amount of side effects as possible. If the best means to that end is a commercial source, then you must applaud that company for coming up with that product and support their efforts by purchasing it.
Hesaias: Amanda listed the active ingredients exactly as they are listed on the bottle. They have left off the exact compounds included and gave a general description 5-nitroimadazoles most likely with emphasis on the "s" meaning it contains several nitroimadazole compounds. I do not want to get into what may be in it as the company has I am sure invested their time and dollars in the product and if it does work should reap the benifits of their efforts. As I said in the previous post, it is not very expensive even from the LFS where I bought it at $30 for a very large bottle (1-1.5L) and as such they are not trying to rip the dollars out of the consumers pocket. If my estimate of volume is correct (they do not list the total volume on the container I purchased)then the bottle will be able to treat a 100 gallon true volume tank as per their instructions of 4 treatments 2 times. But hopefully Ruby reef will tell me the exact volume of their product that I have since I do not want to pour it out to find out.
Amanda: I hope that you understand that I was not trying to grill you if that was your perception, but was interested in the topic as I am sure everyone else is. I like others from the other board would have liked to know more aboout your tank conditions when you treated, but if you do not know, you do not know. I personally would not be satisfied with your results no matter what you said unless I tried it myself. I do however applaud you for bringing to our attention your success with a product. I hope that soon Larry will be able to do a so you want to know about crypto thread that will encompass all the treatments that we have collectively come up with.
I too saw the post on the other board and the direction it turned. If anyone has taken my comments as an attack that is not at all my intention. My intentions with disease are quite simple-to determine the cause and the possible cures that have the least amount of side effects as possible. If the best means to that end is a commercial source, then you must applaud that company for coming up with that product and support their efforts by purchasing it.
Hesaias: Amanda listed the active ingredients exactly as they are listed on the bottle. They have left off the exact compounds included and gave a general description 5-nitroimadazoles most likely with emphasis on the "s" meaning it contains several nitroimadazole compounds. I do not want to get into what may be in it as the company has I am sure invested their time and dollars in the product and if it does work should reap the benifits of their efforts. As I said in the previous post, it is not very expensive even from the LFS where I bought it at $30 for a very large bottle (1-1.5L) and as such they are not trying to rip the dollars out of the consumers pocket. If my estimate of volume is correct (they do not list the total volume on the container I purchased)then the bottle will be able to treat a 100 gallon true volume tank as per their instructions of 4 treatments 2 times. But hopefully Ruby reef will tell me the exact volume of their product that I have since I do not want to pour it out to find out.
Amanda: I hope that you understand that I was not trying to grill you if that was your perception, but was interested in the topic as I am sure everyone else is. I like others from the other board would have liked to know more aboout your tank conditions when you treated, but if you do not know, you do not know. I personally would not be satisfied with your results no matter what you said unless I tried it myself. I do however applaud you for bringing to our attention your success with a product. I hope that soon Larry will be able to do a so you want to know about crypto thread that will encompass all the treatments that we have collectively come up with.
No need to wait for Larry, anyone can start a "So you want to...." thread. I purposely laid off them for a while as it seemed like people were tiring of so many in a row. But, maybe the time is right for this one. Be my guest, anyone.
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Larry M
View a list of RC Member's websites at:
http://www.reefcentral.com/membersites.html
I purposely laid off them for a while as it seemed like people were tiring of so many in a row. But, maybe the time is right for this one. Be my guest, anyone.------------------
Larry M
View a list of RC Member's websites at:
http://www.reefcentral.com/membersites.html
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