Landlords Log - Breeding Tomato Clowns

[rrcg50]

do not get discouraged. we have all been there done that. as for the rots just wait and see. i do not use any air pumps on mine and they are fine. if it crashed then all you have to do is syphon off the bottom of the bucket and use that water to start the culture over again. found this out after the third purchase from reeds(nice money saver). my first hatch i had 6 survive to day 5 and then they all died. 3,4,5,6 were all total losses. 7th was the magic number for me. i am only getting a 7 to 10% survival rate but it works out to my benefit. local fish store can only take so many at a time.
to give you a heads up you will need a second 10 gallon tank/heater/air pump or gang valves. 9 days goes real fast and you do not want to mokve them that quick. i personally like the 5 gallon tanks a little better because you can keep your rots more concerntrated in a smaller area.
if you have any questions just shoot me a pm. i will help as best as i can. we all needed someone at sometime.
fb is a great wealth of knowledge(hint) read his thread. i learned alot

 

[landlord]

rrcg50 - thanks for the words!

I got a couple tanks, air pump, gang valves, air stones, ammonia devices, etc. There are supposed to arrive the day after the hatch so I might be keeping fry in milk jugs until then

Sie Note - How do you know if your rotifer culture is crashed? Color??? Smell? thoughts?

Thanks

Kurt

 

[dazed]

You can tell when/if the rotifer culture has crashed by whether or not you have rot's in the water column.

I don't get to hung up on the density of rot's per ml, i either have rot's or i don't, lol. To check on the rotifer culture i take an old test tube from a testing kit and take a sample of the water from the rot culture, i then hold that sample up to a light source and you will be able to see what looks like "dust" in the water.

I usually allow a new culture around 3 days time to settle in before i split it up.

 

[agsansoo]

<B>Sample of Rot Culture</B>

 

[landlord]

Sweeeet. I got rots!

I used the test tube method described above. Although mine are not nearly as dense as the picture, but I'm guessing as they multiply it will get better.

Awesome

Follow-up question - How do you guys transfer them to the larvae tanks, sieve? coffee filter (since I have no sieve :lol: ), I do have a brine shrimp net but these fellas are tiny.

As always thank you guys for your support!

Kurt

 

[agsansoo]

Sieve or coffee filter will work. The best sieve is like the one florida aqua farms sells.

FAF

Get the 4" 53u.

 

[landlord]

Thanks Andy!

--Kurt

I am really starting to get excited about things working out here. I think I am going to divide the 5 gallon bucket in half tonight add another gallon or so to each new bucket and increase my overall rotifer count. Better not to have all my eggs in one basket so to speak. It has been suggested to wait a couple days after starting the culture before splitting it or harvesting it and tonight will be the 48 hour mark.

I am curious about something. I am using the concentrated Rotifer Diet from Reed's. I believe it is nanno sp. In any case I have been adding 2 ml every 12 hours to a 5 gallon bucket full. The mix stays a constant light green. Should I see the color lighten up a bit after a 12 hour session of feeding?

I was thinking that maybe it is lightening, but becuase I am looking down into a bucket I simply do not notice the change. I mean I do not want them to starve but I also do not want to waste the phyto.

I'm guessing this is probably another learning experience that I will grasp over time but any insights would be appreciated.

Kurt

 

[landlord]

Spent the morning neglecting my job and reading / rereading your all's rotifer regimes. It really appears that these can be almost as picky and frustrating as the clownfish.

:lol:

After all that I am a bit more nervous about keeping them going for any extended period. It seemed like on about every other page of FB's thread he was getting another bag..... j/k

This could get pricey for me with no local supply. I guess I need to really concentrate on mastering these basics, I have been having dreams about buying more pairs maybe I'll just buy more empty buckets and go culture crazy instead.

Baby Steps .............

Kurt

 

[agsansoo]

OK ... I'm probably the only one here that cultures rotifers in smaller container, instead of 5 gallon buckets. I use 1/2 gal or 1 gal rubbermaid containers. I found it much easier to maintain. My culture is over 1+ years old.

 

[landlord]

Well that's promising news. I guess I could downsize but I really have no idea how many I will need. Or better yet how many I really have :lol:

agsansoo - How much daily feed do you give your 1 gallon container? What type of food?

My 4ml per 5 gallon bucket just doesn't seem right, but I really have nothing to compare against.

Thank you for your assistance --Kurt

 

[agsansoo]

No real science here. LOL
1 gal. = 16-20 drops
1/2 gal = 8-10 drops

I use Rotifer Diet from Reed's, it's great stuff.

<B> This is an old photo. I use only two 1/2 gal. containers now, just for feeding my sps's</B>

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14702248#post14702248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by landlord
Thanks Andy!

--Kurt

I am really starting to get excited about things working out here. I think I am going to divide the 5 gallon bucket in half tonight add another gallon or so to each new bucket and increase my overall rotifer count. Better not to have all my eggs in one basket so to speak. It has been suggested to wait a couple days after starting the culture before splitting it or harvesting it and tonight will be the 48 hour mark.

I am curious about something. I am using the concentrated Rotifer Diet from Reed's. I believe it is nanno sp. In any case I have been adding 2 ml every 12 hours to a 5 gallon bucket full. The mix stays a constant light green. Should I see the color lighten up a bit after a 12 hour session of feeding?

I was thinking that maybe it is lightening, but becuase I am looking down into a bucket I simply do not notice the change. I mean I do not want them to starve but I also do not want to waste the phyto.

I'm guessing this is probably another learning experience that I will grasp over time but any insights would be appreciated.

Kurt

I had the same problem when i was using the 5g buckets for my cultures I had a hard time figuring out the tint of the water what i thought looked green in the bucket did not look very green when i poured it out from the bucket if that makes sense, lol. I switched from the buckets to 5g tanks because for me it's much easier to judge the color/tint of the water when you can look through it.

 

[landlord]

Well this last weekend I prepared everything for the hatch. I went out and acquired a 5 gallon tank, heater, etc. The fry tank is up and running. I cut a piece of acrylic for the top. Not sure if this was needed but it keeps the evaporation off the living room walls much to the delight of my wife .

I havrested 1 gallon each from my two 5 gallon buckets of rotifers and placed the harvest into the fry tank with some Rotifer Diet to get them going. It is really easy with a glass tank (thanks dazed) to be able to tell that the rotifers are actually eating. It is much easier to determine the color tint of the water. Knock on wood I believe that I have plenty of rotifers going. This morning the new fry tank looked like a snowglobe when I shined the flashlight on it, and with two 5 gallon bucket in reserve ready to be harvested again I think I am prepared. Well I hope I am prepared.

Tonight should be the night for the hatch. All of the eggs from Batch II are nice and silver and the yolk sacs seem to be almost completely consumed.

Here's my question part, more of a scenario in need of commentary ---

I guess I will simply collect the hatching fry tonight and simply transfer them over to the larvae tank. This seems too simple. Am I missing something here or is that really all I need to do? The rotifer count in the fry tank seems to be dense enough to support the fry until I get home from work the following day but without ever having seen the amount of food that fry can consume in an 18 hour poeriod I simply just don't know. Can you have too many rotifers in the fry tank prior to introducing the fry? I tested the water for ammonia and it was not present.

In any case I am as prepared as I think I can be and wanted to offer out another thanks to you folks. Stepping in the footsteps of giants makes this process seem to be pretty easy and as always your help and guidance is very much appreciated.

--Kurt

 

[rkelman]

I just found your thread sorry for letting these guys lead you astray.
I think the acrylic top is a great idea. Evaporation sucks and topping off larvae / growout tanks is a pain.

How long have the Rots been in the fry tank? You are using display tank water now right? Having Rotifers in there is going to change the composition of the water pretty quickly. I've put them in a day before they hatched and not had any ill effects. I would be concerned after 2. I think 2 5g buckets is a good start. I have 3 going and recently 2 of them crashed because I was overfeeding them.

Yes simply transfering them is really all you need to do. As long as the water matches ph / salinity you should be good. The rotifers will be fine for a day. You'll find when they get a few days old or so they will consume alot of Rotifers very fast (depending on how many larvae you have) Yes you can have too many. Make sure you are getting enough oxygen into the water and are keeping an eye on ammonia. Don't freak out and start doing huge water changes when you start seeing ammonia. An old breeder once told me "ammonia doesn't kill Clownfish" I didn't really believe him at the time but now there is some truth to it. Get some Amquel if you haven't already and use it rather than do big water changes at first.

"Stepping in the footsteps of giants"

Giants.. Yes that's what we are lol.

 

[landlord]

Well it happened on queue about 15 minutes after lights out. Full hatch within 20 minutes. There were fry everywhere!

I got a picture of the collection bucket coming later today from the wifey

In any case I would say that there were at least 300-400 probably many more than that. It was absolutely insane the amount of clownfish.

So now it gets all wonky! I transferred them to the 5.5 gallon larvae tank which to me seemed to be packed with rotifers. Like I said previously, it looked like a snowglobe. I got an ammonia badge in there and also took a test kit test prior to release and there was no ammonia present, or at least it was too minimal to show up on either testing media. The tank has an airstone dialed down to a very gentle stream of bubbles. Not boiling the water by any means. Enough to keep things moving (I guess). There is also a heater in there set to 79. I do not yet have a thermometer in the tank to make sure the heater is actually working correctly but the water felt warm.

In any case after dumping in the fry I noticed the about 50 of the 3 to 4 hundred went to the bottom and just laid there . I was not discouraged by this and figured that I must had done some physical damage transferring them between the collection bucket and the tank. The remainder of them looked like a nice swarm of bees in the tank.

..then I went to bed.

This morning I noticed that there were about 5 actively swimming around (YES 5!), that's it. The rest were on the bottom. When I nudged the tank I saw a few of them kind of scamper around for a bit but then back to the bottom

Has anyone else noticed this behavior? or is this simply a prelude to death. We're talking 350 babies laying down on the bottom of the tank.

There were plenty of rotifers in the water. Of some concern was that I am using reef tank water for the rotifers and the larvae tank right now. The larvae tank mesured 1.023 sg. Last night I wasn't so concerned becuase of all the fry movement but this morning I was very frustrated. Now I am at work running all kinds of ideas through my head about what is going on. I am going to hunt through more threads to see if I can find a possible solution but if anyone has any ideas on what could be going on that would be sweet.

Again this could be normal behavior (resting on the bottom) but I have no frame of reference.

Thanks again

--Kurt

 

[landlord]

OK skimmed through the last years worth of threads on my search.

Saw quite a few references to the amount of bubbles for a larvae tank. I have a very calm stream, I would say it is probably on the lower side of the scale. I'm leaning towards too little but again, no frame of reference.

Secondly, I am back to questioning my rotifers. According to billsreef they should look like specs of dust to the naked eye.

--Mine do

A great image by agsansoo, in this thread, shows a size and density which I am simply not getting. Maybe I am misinterpreting the image becuase it has been blown up???

Should I be able to see the rotifers "swimming" with the naked eye. Mine seem to be simply going with the current, I have seen one of the spec actually "do something" physically in the water but most often they simply float around, like specs of pollen in the wind. They are indeed throughout the water column but again I have no reference.

Thanks


--Kurt

 

[heap]

usually see something a little closer to self-sustained movement by day 3 or so...first few days, they can move on their own, but typically only a body length at a time (which is great for turning around in the current, and eating the rotifer that is touching your nose, but not much else)

larvae smashed on the bottom can be a sign of too much light - or a reflection of the light on the bottom pane of glass. move the light above the tank up and down...it's like a stupid larva trick. you'll see them move up and down within the water column.

are you blacking out the sides of your larva tank with anything?

 

[heap]

erm....nevermind. just noticed your question was on rotifer motion, not larva. they move themselves, but you'd need a microscope to see anything but going w/ the current. dust-motes-moving-in-the-current is the norm.

 

[rkelman]

My first thought is a difference in the water. Probably temperature seeing as you are using tank water. You need a thermometer and match the temps. Also PH and salinity need to match so in the future take your water from the display on hatch night to minimize the difference. Did you add phyto to the larvae tank? Adding the phyto minimizes the reflections and they will eat /move around (at least in my case) significantly better. You can't see rotifers swimming. If you have dusty water you have Rotifers. (not just on top or bottom but throughout the water column) Agsansoo's picture is blurred the Rots aren't nearly as big as they appear there. In my case at least blacking out the sides has done nothing. I don't bother an more as it hasn't made a bit of difference.

 

[landlord]

Thanks for the heads-up heap! I not going to dwell on the rotifers much then. There seem to be plenty. I believe that I am down to maybe 40 of so larvae. They basically just keep dropping off.

rkelman - Yeah I got rots and phyto in the tank. The living larvae seem to be off the glass and actively swimming around but about every hour I go to the tank and siphon off a few more carcasses.

The water I used for the rots came directly from the tank as well and is being used for the larvae tank. When I first set up the culture I dialed back the salinity of the rots water to 1.020 but now they seem to be holding there own in 1.025. So all the water is the same.

Could simple physical damage have caused such a die off. I used a siphon to collect the larvae from the DT into a 5 gallon bucket. Then I salvaged what I could waterwise from the 5 gallons and transferred, by dumping, the larvae into a 1 gallon bucket to snap some pics. Finally I dumped that into the larvae tank. They were swimming like mad last night but the massive die off started immediately. By morning I had lost around 85% and a few here and there since then. I am going to get a thermometer. I believe the heater is overpowered for the tank size and I am not sure that the temp setting on the thermometer is accurate to the water temp. Both the DT and larvae tank should be at 79.

I got a tile in the DT for next time in the hopes I can get a laying on it.

I'll keep my fingers crossed on these guys and wait till morning for another update.

Thanks again


Kurt