Large black spots on Clowns

[RocketSeason]

Hello all. I tried to search the site for this but search is well...you know...

Anyways, both of my O. clowns have 4 or 5 black spots on their backs. I looked up black ich, but these spots are much larger. Say, 3 or 4 times larger than the spots associated with black ich.

I would take a pic, but my wife has my camera and she is out of town.

Can someone point me to some information that might help me diagnose the problem?

thanks!
-Matt

 

[RocketSeason]

Here is a pic. these guys move like crazy so its hard to keep them still.

The spots look smaller to me today...

Just to give you a bit more info, my tanks temp had been all over the board recently. my air conditioning went out on thursday and it was very hot in there for about a day before I was slowly able to bring it down with fans and ice.

Tank temp is normal now, but those little guys were really pretty stressed for a while I suppose.

 

[RocketSeason]

Should I treat this the same way as how I would treat a normal Ich outbreak? Any pointers?

Any help you can give would be appreciated. Thanks!

-Matt

 

[RocketSeason]

Alright, well I can't let this go any longer, so I am just going to assume its Black Ich and treat it accordingly.

 

[oama]

Matt, are the black spots uniform in size and tend to migrate around the fish? Then it could be black ich.

But if they are Not Uniform in size and shape and they stay in the same place, then it is not black ich. This is a melanistic reaction to the clown hosting in something new or strange.

Added any new corals recently? Frogspawn??

If it's the later, no problem. They will go away with time when the clown system gets use to the nematosist of the newer host.

 

[jeffbrig]

This is likely hypermelanization from touching stinging corals. Where are your clowns hosting? Mine host in an monti cap, and are covered with them. Consider them harmless little clown freckles. Here is a pic of mine.

--Christy (and Jeff)

 

[RocketSeason]

huh. Interesting.

Well, the spots are NOT uniform. they do stay in one spot, and they look larger than Ich. The fish got them all within a day or so and have not developed any new spots. Both fish got them at the exact same time. The spots are also concentrated mostly on the upper portions of their body.

I have not seen them hosting in anything that would sting them. I have zoos, GSP, and some sort of orange colonial polyp. I have not seen them hosting any of this.

They do host the hair algea a bit...

Thanks for the help! any further help would be much appreciated.

 

[cristhiam]

I agree with the other posts my clows get them and it's from hosing my goni and GSP. Silly clowns I got the an RBTA they won't even looked at it.

 

[RocketSeason]

yeah. I just haven't seen them host the GSP. And both got them at the same time.

An intetesting note: Both my clowns and all the pics I see of hypermelanization don't show marks in the white areas of the fish.

interesting.

 

[ufchristyb]

I wouldn't expect any hypermelanization spots in the white bars. White coloration in animals/humans is generally due to an absence of melanin, so there would be no way to get a concentration of it to produce dark spots.

--Christy

 

[RocketSeason]

If this were black ich? would there be black spots in the white bars?

 

[jeffbrig]

Not sure, I've never seen it on a clown...

We had a yellow tang with black ich once. A single dip in temp/pH matched freshwater took care of it. It's a very easy treatment. If the spots disappear, it comfirms black ich. If the spots are still there, it's something else.

 

[ufchristyb]

I would imagine that black ick would attack the fish indiscriminately. Moreover, it is sooo tiny that it would probably be more noticeable in the white bars. I really think you are dealing with freckles.

--Christy.

 

[RocketSeason]

Well, I may just wait off on treatment untill I see signs of stress. the fish are eating fine and they have had this condition for over a week now.

I have a potters angel arriving in a couple of weeks. If things get worse, I will take steps. Perhaps a FW dip is in order.

 

[jeffbrig]

Here is a good pic of black ich that I found online for you to compare with your fish. It looks exactly like our yellow tang when she had it.

As you can see, these are very tiny worms, so if you see something larger than that, its not black ich.

 

[RocketSeason]

well, I have had my clowns in QT for 5 days. Treated them with copper. The brown spots have not dissappeared. How long does it take for a normal parasite to drop off of a clowns body?

These guys have had this for two and a half weeks now. (with an escallation about a week ago.) I am beginning to suspect something other than parasites.

 

[jeffbrig]

Would copper even touch black ich? The only treatment I've read about (and used) is a quick fw dip, <5 minutes. With the fw dip, the results are instant. If the paravortex worms are present, they drop off immediately.

I'm not sure what other pathogens could cause black spots, so it's kinda hard to guess. If you haven't already, just go ahead and do the dip so we can rule that out as a possible cause.

 

[RocketSeason]

as far as I know, black ich is pretty much the same thing. the black comes from the discoloration of the skin and not the parasite itself.

I do not think this is ich because the parasite has not moved or dropped off in over two weeks.

Depending on how long a copper treated QT should be administered before I should see physical signs of the fish getting better, I may just try a FW dip to see if the parasite drops off then.

Of course, there may be no parasite at all and this could be something completely different. I have yet to diagnose exactly what is causing this.

 

[jeffbrig]

Actually, black ich is an entirely different organism than cryptocarryon irritans. Black ich is due to the paravortex worm, and the dark coloration is from the worm itself. After freshwater dipping my yellow tang that had black ich, there was a bunch of dead, tiny black parasites in the bottom of the bucket, and the fish was back to its normal yellow self with no spots after a five minute dip.

That being said, I still think you are dealing with hypermelanization.

 

[RocketSeason]

would hypermelanization show up on the tops of their bodies if they were in the zoos though? thats where the vast majority of the spots are located. They are still there by the way.

I may give them a FW dip this week and see if anything falls off. If not, then I may just stick them back into the display.