Large tank project Advice

[L98-Z]

You get a bit more efficiency with 220v.Check out the specs on Icecap web site and compared the amp draw with 220 vs 110.Most electric stoves,clothes dryers and hot water heaters are 220v.There is a reason.I am not an electrical whiz but my limited understanding is 220 is cheaper to run than 110.

Hmmm, I was under the assumption that because those items pull more current, they need the extra voltage to lower the amperes to avoid issues or extremly large capables. More amps = lower gauge wire. Like battery cables on a car being 2-4 gauge.

I also want to say that someone did a comparison on the 220 Icecap and it was bascially the equilivent in terms of watt per amp and such. The 220 with slightly less amp draw was also slightly weaker than it's 110v counterpart.

We do need an electrican to drop in on this thread and correct us.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

The lower the gauge wire, the bigger the wire is
14 gauge
12 gauge is thicker
2-4 gauge really thick

so you use lower gauge wire with more volts, not higher gauge
but some people may consider going from 14 gauge to - 2 gauge as going higher since the wire is thicker
depends upon your point of view

 

[L98-Z]

The lower the gauge wire, the bigger the wire is
14 gauge
12 gauge is thicker
2-4 gauge really thick

so you use lower gauge wire with more volts, not higher gauge
but some people may consider going from 14 gauge to - 2 gauge as going higher since the wire is thicker
depends upon your point of view

I know how to determine wire gauge, and understand how they are numbered, so I'm assuming that wasn't directed towards me.

However, I believe it should be lower gauge wire is required with more amperes, not volts. Afterall, as I used above with the car battery example, you are running 2-4 gauge wire at only 12v, while your normal housewire is probably closer to 10-14gauge yet it's running 120v. The different is a battery runs 400-800 amperes while your average household item is usually less than 25 amperes.

 

[ShipMate]

One potential problem about the 'Daylight' tracking system on a reeftank might be some condensation and need to clean the dome and reflectors periodically. That could prove to be a pain if you do not have easy access...

 

[Herpervet]

The dome will be easy to access. The system is sealed so there shouldn't be any need to clean the tracking system.

 

[Herpervet]

Well, the project has changed considerably. The tank is now a true in wall design a-la Steve Weast. Tank measures 96" X 48" X 31" high.

It still has dual skylights 48" X 48" with active tracking. I have added 3 thin rails to suspend metal halide pendants as needed to supplement 20K spectrum. This should soften the appearance of the tank.

The tank is being built by Exotic Aquariums in Miami. Low iron front viewing panel.

Here are some pics of the stand which I had built locally:

 

[JeffCo]

Now that's a stand....So the mesh iron is going to be a catwalk around the tank...that's pretty sweet.

 

[Herpervet]

I didn't want a bunch of extra legs in the center taking up space and I wanted the back side open. So we used 3.5" X 3.5" angle iron.

We put a removable support in the middle on the back side so that I can put a large sump in. I doubt the brace was needed but it made the iron guy feel better anyway.

I had one like this built a couple of years ago for a 300 (that leakes and is still an unfinished project).

The only problem was that the welds on the first one were done on top of the stand surface so the top was not completely level.

This time I mentioned the problem and they did the welding on the bottom side of the top surface. Now the top is absolutely flat.

Of course I will be putting plywood and styro on for the surface but it sure helps to have it level and square first.

 

[sixxer]

Wow!!! Now that is a tank stand!!!

 

[mc-cro]

holy s**t Thats a stand- how much did that cost?

 

[Herpervet]

circa $1100 bux delivered. It woulda been more like $800 a few months ago but thanks to the Chinese the price of iron has gone through the roof.

 

[H20ENG]

So it fits through the door?
Nice access!

 

[Herpervet]

No it doesn't fit through the door. We have a large roll up door in the back of the building we are renovating. It will be delivered on a truck and placed with a fork lift.

The filter room will be built around the stand.

 

[H20ENG]

AWESOME

 

[Herpervet]

thx.

I wish I had the room to double the size of the filtration room but it wasn't do-able given the space restrictions.

So. I decided to make the stand extra tall for as much "Stuff" as possible and to allow access without so much stooping over.

I wish it could have been even taller for more comfortable access but then no one would have been able to look directly into the viewing panel.


The cistern pics should be coming soon and then the skylights.

 

[Herpervet]

the cistern and hole for it (and the mad scientist that fell in)

This will be plumbed to the sump in a closed loop. A good airtight seal of the manhole is the biggest challenge and a modification of the gasket is in the works.

600 gallons of additional volume should help stabalize the system and help lessen the chiller requirements.

The amount of geothermal cooling it will add remains to be seen but the built in ridges do increase the soil contact.

I am still debating the float switch design. I am thinking of a tsunami AT-1 to turn on a top off pump. The top off water would flow through a mechanical valve located above the maximum water line and would stop the top off in the event the tsunami solenoid fails.

The only contingency left is a leak in the cistern gasket which would lead to a drop in the sump and top off water would then be added continually.

I am thinking that a timer on the top-off pump that would only allow it to run for a short period every 24 hours would help since a drastic drop would then be noticed quicker.

On the other hand a continually running stream from the top-off source would also be a tip-off.

I guess a salinity controller would also be a solution (I think these are available??). It could be set to turn off actuated ball valves which would close off the cistern I guess....

Any other thoughts/ideas

 

[H20ENG]

Not sure of your geographical location, but one concern I would have is overcooling of the system. It isnt very cost effective to run your heaters full bore to try and heat the earth. I like the idea of the extra volume AND the geo-cooling, but it simply is too hard to control running system water through the geo cooler ($ wise anyway). I always urge people using geo cooling to de couple the loops using an exchanger. Looks like your all set by now though. Hopefully, your heat input will match the heat sink and you'll run smooth! I really dont see how you can control it other than running heaters simultaneously.

Also, I'd put a leak alarm around the rim of the manhole (How many reefers actually have a MANHOLE on their systems???!!!!)
You could place a ring shaped tray around it to catch any water to signal an alarm.

As far as the topoff- a safe move is to have a valve dialed down on your topoff so that it can only fill so much in a certain period. This is mechanical, plus a timer is a good idea.

Nice project, Herp!

 

[Herpervet]

Here is another issue: Lets say the power shuts down for a couple of days or the cistern closed loop pump fails.

Now you have water that will slowly cool down to around 55 or 60 degrees F.

The pump goes back on and you have a major shock of cold water.

Now I have to put a controller on the cistern pump to turn it off if a drop in temp is detected.

thoughts??

 

[Herpervet]

You replied while I was typing..

I live in El Paso. If over-cooling is an issue then the solution would be to run the closed loop with a thermostat controller right?

A temp controller would turn the cistern loop pump on and off once the temp drop was detected.

If this is the solution then the cistern closed loop pump would need to be properly sized. (i.e. relatively small/low flow) so that lots of cycling didn't occur.

It will certainly be interesting to see how it works.

Worst case scenerio. I have a way to conveniently store 600 gallons of saltwater for water changes.

 

[H20ENG]

"A temp controller would turn the cistern loop pump on and off once the temp drop was detected.

If this is the solution then the cistern closed loop pump would need to be properly sized. (i.e. relatively small/low flow) so that lots of cycling didn't occur."

I think your on the right track here. Also, have the chilled water feed into a high flow area (Like the tank overflow) to get thoroughly mixed before returning to the tank. This will give you a good temp reading (for control) and not shock the inhabitants.

Now what about when the tank is calling for heat and NO cooling? Then the water is stagnating. So, you need to continuously recirc the chilled water loop, and aerate it.
So now you need to vent the loop to a high point (since you are adding air, it needs to breathe). Running a small skimmer on this loop would aerate the loop and hopefully keep any solids from settling in the big tank.
Since it will need to recirc, you can no longer use this pump to feed the tank with, unless you use a three way valve. A 3way would then allow chilled water to the tank, based on call for cooling.
Now I'm trying to think about how to get rid of the thermosiphon effect....
Easy, huh!
I love this stuff!