Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail

Interesting and thank you for the read. I run no carbon or p04 remover. Just an algae scrubber and skimmer. I have been kicking around the idea for awhile to try a product of some sort, but I’m not sure I’m ready to commit to a year like you said. I’m just hoping increasing my feedings a tad bit works.
Either way, your tank is stunning no doubt!!

Corey
 
Matt,
your full tank photo looks amaizing.

I have some questions for you.
when you were using the halide bulbs, how often did you changed the bulbs? I have read that once halide bulbs get old the spectrum favors the growth of some algaes. do you since you have a lot of experience with halides, I wanted to know if this is true?

what branad of bulbs did you used?

Thanks
 
Wow Matt,

THE FTS Shot looks Spectacular. Without looking back at past FTS it appears things have really progressed. Colonies and grown quite a bit.

Coral Close-ups as delicious looking as ever, if not better.
 
Recently, things are fairly stable.. p has been right around .07 with heavy rowa phos use. Alk has been steady at right around 7.. p has been climbed to 25ppm.. even with the use of a carbon source.. which was keeping it lower and then inexplicable, it climbed but stopped at 25. I’ve been very slowly increasing the Fauna Marin Bak.. taking it slow..
I started using Fauna’s color elements as well..
Some thing continue to color up, some sit there dormant and many are growing..
I’m not unhappy with the tank.. not blown away yet..

Macro Shots even Better. Man I'm jealous!!

I figure you meant N has climbed to 25ppm. Interesting since that's what my Tank won't budge from no matter what I did, so I give up.
P is a easy fix like you are doing with RowaPhos, but N has a mind of it's own.
 
Thanks for the update Matt. Your tank looks really nice as usual even though you may not be happy with it. We like Matt's tank, don't we people?

Did the algae subside or disappear after starting our new regimen? You will not be disappointed with the FM products. Many reefers in Europe have success with their products.

When you write "P", do you mean Phosphorus, i.e. literally P, or phosphates, i.e. PO4?

Do you have a so-called pearlberry acro in your tank? If so, can I see a close-up picture of it please?

Thanks, Bulent. I do not have the same saturation of color that I had.. I'm hoping it will come back.. assuming it will! It's oossible it's still light stress from when I blasted them with too much led for a while. I'm going to raise my lights up a couple of inches this weekend.
Currently I have no algea issues but I do have several tangs and many snails and hermits... not much nuisance algea... but not nine.. there are spots of cyano only in my frag tank which has less flow. There is the odd bubble here and there and recently, I am cleaning the glass more often. I'm sure this is due to the aminos, Organic and color elements.. but none of it is out or ordinary levels.
As for phosphates, I mean phosphates. Po4. I guess I shouldn't use just P because it really refers to phosphorus, as you pointed out.. it's a lazyness thing!

As for the pearlberry- which is one of my most favorite acros and one I have yet to successfully keep- yes I have a piece... it has been dormant or just encrustifor several years..
Here's a pic. Doesn't anything like it should... if it doesn't take off this year, Fauna is in the garbage!!
 
Interesting and thank you for the read. I run no carbon or p04 remover. Just an algae scrubber and skimmer. I have been kicking around the idea for awhile to try a product of some sort, but I'm not sure I'm ready to commit to a year like you said. I'm just hoping increasing my feedings a tad bit works.
Either way, your tank is stunning no doubt!!

Corey

Thanks Corey!
I have always had an algea scrubber and a decent skimmer and they have at times kept nutrients under control and at others, not. But certainly, the scrubber and skimmer have never kept up with my po4 issues. If I stopped using gfo now, my po4 would immediately climb to around .2-.3...
Some would say that's not a bad thing.. I've had them there and had quite nice corals but right now I'm trying a different direction.
As for supplements, one could debate the pros and cons, usefulness/ benefits for hours and many have specific issues they can address in a reef..
Generally, I would say they are not 100% necessary but in the modern era of reefing (which I would call since around 2005) they can certainly develop better colors and health in acros...
 
Matt,
your full tank photo looks amaizing.

I have some questions for you.
when you were using the halide bulbs, how often did you changed the bulbs? I have read that once halide bulbs get old the spectrum favors the growth of some algaes. do you since you have a lot of experience with halides, I wanted to know if this is true?

what branad of bulbs did you used?

Thanks

Thanks Jorge! I generally went with 12 months... which, considering my mh were only on for like 5 hours a day, was probably earlier than necessary... I do this with my t5 as well..
I was originally using radium 150w de but I couldn't get those anymore, so started using ushio blue.
Personally I believe that not enough herbivores and poor water conditions are what cause hair algea.. when a system is in balance with proper algea consumers/controllers, I don't think the lght source makes all that much difference..
Now, having said that, if you look at all the latest fuge lights coming out on the market, they are all red spectrum light sources, so clearly that spectrum, which is devoid of blue (blue being the spectrum that burns out first in mh and t5 bulbs) it is clear that red area of the spectrum will help algea grow..
so technically, if water/system conditions are good for algea growth, old bulbs may help it take over but if the system is well balanced, I don't think old bulbs contribute much to algea growth...
But algea growth shouldn't be the motivation for changing bulbs, giving the corals proper, full spectrum, should be the motivation..
 
Wow Matt,

THE FTS Shot looks Spectacular. Without looking back at past FTS it appears things have really progressed. Colonies and grown quite a bit.

Coral Close-ups as delicious looking as ever, if not better.

Hey Wally, nice to hear from you! Thanks! Some things grow well (too well) and others are torturously slow..
I keep yanking out big colonies to make room for 20 frags...
I am still lacking the proper saturation on many corals...

Macro Shots even Better. Man I'm jealous!!

I figure you meant N has climbed to 25ppm. Interesting since that's what my Tank won't budge from no matter what I did, so I give up.
P is a easy fix like you are doing with RowaPhos, but N has a mind of it's own.

Yes! I meant nitrate.
N can be a funny animal.. have you tried a carbon source for reducing n?
 
Hey Wally, nice to hear from you! Thanks! Some things grow well (too well) and others are torturously slow..
I keep yanking out big colonies to make room for 20 frags...
I am still lacking the proper saturation on many corals...



Yes! I meant nitrate.
N can be a funny animal.. have you tried a carbon source for reducing n?
Interesting you mention that.

After I stopped the Negatively affecting PhosGuard for P reduction.....

I wanted something for N&P control (outside of Algae Scrubber, which wasn't enough)....

I did look into NoPox but read too many negative stories (even though you mentioned it's the Users Use not the product).

So a couple of weeks ago I started AquaForest (BioS Pro + -NPpro).

Nothing drastic is happening, but it will take time, and I am being patient.
 
Thanks Jorge! I generally went with 12 months... which, considering my mh were only on for like 5 hours a day, was probably earlier than necessary... I do this with my t5 as well..
Nice to hear from you Jorge. How is the Tank doing. Still running a Frag Tank, etc.

When I upgraded to my new Tank, I dropped my OLD MH Fixture (Zero Regrets).
Best thing I ever did was going ALL T5 for main lighting. (with complimentary LEDs for Blue/Actinic)
For T5's: Dimmable on 2 Pairs of 54W, and 1 39W, with One Pair 54W not dimmable. (Blue Plus, Coral Plus mix, with 1 Purple Plus)

1 year on T5's is a good change period. Easy to remember and always falls on Boxing day for some better prices.

I used to try to change my T5's every 8 Months on my other tank.

No more....after seeing this BRS Video on how Long T5's actually last (photo Intensity and Color shift)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3F-vpHsiH0
 
Thanks Jorge! I generally went with 12 months... which, considering my mh were only on for like 5 hours a day, was probably earlier than necessary... I do this with my t5 as well..
I was originally using radium 150w de but I couldn't get those anymore, so started using ushio blue.
Personally I believe that not enough herbivores and poor water conditions are what cause hair algea.. when a system is in balance with proper algea consumers/controllers, I don't think the lght source makes all that much difference..
Now, having said that, if you look at all the latest fuge lights coming out on the market, they are all red spectrum light sources, so clearly that spectrum, which is devoid of blue (blue being the spectrum that burns out first in mh and t5 bulbs) it is clear that red area of the spectrum will help algea grow..
so technically, if water/system conditions are good for algea growth, old bulbs may help it take over but if the system is well balanced, I don't think old bulbs contribute much to algea growth...
But algea growth shouldn't be the motivation for changing bulbs, giving the corals proper, full spectrum, should be the motivation..

Thanks for your answer Matt
One.more.questiion
*
I just changed my halide radium blue bulbs and I noticed that 2 of the 5 new bulbs are giving a different color. 3 of them have the blueish look but the other two look more white.
Have you noticed color differences in new bulbs back when you used halides??

not sure if this is normal?? not sure if color will be more similar after them to burn a few days ?

Thanks again
 
Nice to hear from you Jorge. How is the Tank doing. Still running a Frag Tank, etc.

When I upgraded to my new Tank, I dropped my OLD MH Fixture (Zero Regrets).
Best thing I ever did was going ALL T5 for main lighting. (with complimentary LEDs for Blue/Actinic)
For T5's: Dimmable on 2 Pairs of 54W, and 1 39W, with One Pair 54W not dimmable. (Blue Plus, Coral Plus mix, with 1 Purple Plus)

1 year on T5's is a good change period. Easy to remember and always falls on Boxing day for some better prices.

I used to try to change my T5's every 8 Months on my other tank.

No more....after seeing this BRS Video on how Long T5's actually last (photo Intensity and Color shift)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3F-vpHsiH0

Hello Wally,
I have seen your sps tank doing some good progress... well done!

It has been difficult for me to have success in main dt. It has been a lot of things, but I have been fixing one by one. If it was not for Ed advices I would be completly lost. I can certanly say I have learned a lot and I feel I am close now.

I know T5 are a good choice but in my country nobody sells those bulbs and I need a special permit to import those, so it is easier to bring halide bulbs in my luggage when I travel.
Best regards
 
Thanks for your answer Matt
One.more.questiion
*
I just changed my halide radium blue bulbs and I noticed that 2 of the 5 new bulbs are giving a different color. 3 of them have the blueish look but the other two look more white.
Have you noticed color differences in new bulbs back when you used halides??

not sure if this is normal?? not sure if color will be more similar after them to burn a few days ?

Thanks again

I have noticed slight color differences in new bulbs... I really don't know if it is normal or not.. it is frustrating..
If they were mine, I'd just put the two whiter bulbs in between the three bluer ones..
 
Interesting you mention that.

After I stopped the Negatively affecting PhosGuard for P reduction.....

I wanted something for N&P control (outside of Algae Scrubber, which wasn't enough)....

I did look into NoPox but read too many negative stories (even though you mentioned it's the Users Use not the product).

So a couple of weeks ago I started AquaForest (BioS Pro + -NPpro).

Nothing drastic is happening, but it will take time, and I am being patient.

That's a good combo. I found them to work well but more slowly than products like nopox or vodka etc..
 
I have noticed slight color differences in new bulbs... I really don't know if it is normal or not.. it is frustrating..
If they were mine, I'd just put the two whiter bulbs in between the three bluer ones..

Thanks, That is exactly what I did.
 
That’s a good combo. I found them to work well but more slowly than products like nopox or vodka etc..

Hey Matt,

So I tried the AquaForest NP/BioS for a while. Seems like with my Load and recommended dosing, it's not working that great. Maybe keeping my P lower then where it would go.

So I stopped Feeding Corals period for a couple of weeks (Still doing Light dose of Aminos). Better, but still not where I want my P to get to (around 0.1).

I then looked at my logs, and compared with Photo's at same time. When I was using PhosGuard and getting P to close to that 0.1 things were better. Much better, and then when P rose, things dwindled.

So I put back my Reactor with PhosGuard on low flow. Threw in GFO in a baggie in Sump in Low Flow Area.

Slowly P dropped from .39 to 0.35 to 0.25, and still dropping (slowly).

Things look better. A couple of damaged Frags that I felt I was going to loose are showing signs of recovery.
The Majority of Frags that were doing fine, are still doing fine.

The reason for this post is some Folks convinced me that P, even as high as 0.4 is fine, if stable. Corals will adapt.

I don't believe that anymore from Evidence. My observations are when P is high, coral grow is retarded. Even if you don't need speed-growth, good grow is needed for Encrustment of new Frags, and quick recovery on SPS if they experience a brief negative hit.

You posted above that your couldn't get P down, and like me started using GFO (reactor & baggies) to get it under control.

Would you agree that P at or just below 0.1 is critical for Coral Success.
Specifically in my Tank which is 100% SPS Frags.
 
Hey Matt,

So I tried the AquaForest NP/BioS for a while. Seems like with my Load and recommended dosing, it's not working that great. Maybe keeping my P lower then where it would go.

So I stopped Feeding Corals period for a couple of weeks (Still doing Light dose of Aminos). Better, but still not where I want my P to get to (around 0.1).

I then looked at my logs, and compared with Photo's at same time. When I was using PhosGuard and getting P to close to that 0.1 things were better. Much better, and then when P rose, things dwindled.

So I put back my Reactor with PhosGuard on low flow. Threw in GFO in a baggie in Sump in Low Flow Area.

Slowly P dropped from .39 to 0.35 to 0.25, and still dropping (slowly).

Things look better. A couple of damaged Frags that I felt I was going to loose are showing signs of recovery.
The Majority of Frags that were doing fine, are still doing fine.

The reason for this post is some Folks convinced me that P, even as high as 0.4 is fine, if stable. Corals will adapt.

I don't believe that anymore from Evidence. My observations are when P is high, coral grow is retarded. Even if you don't need speed-growth, good grow is needed for Encrustment of new Frags, and quick recovery on SPS if they experience a brief negative hit.

You posted above that your couldn't get P down, and like me started using GFO (reactor & baggies) to get it under control.

Would you agree that P at or just below 0.1 is critical for Coral Success.
Specifically in my Tank which is 100% SPS Frags.

Hey Wally, this is probably one of the most hotly debated subjects in modern reefkeeping!
My short answer is no, I do not feel that po4 at or just around .1 is CRITICAL for coral success..
is it a range where one's chances are improved for general success? I would say yes to this..
If you go back in this thread and look at just about any of the million photos, you will be looking at corals that were growing and looking pretty good (for the most part) in water with a po4 of between .1 and .25.
One can look around at so many stunning reef tanks these days and some will have higher nutrients (I'd say n above 10ppm and p above .1) and some will have lower nutrients and some will have ultra low..
so, I would agree that corals are highly adaptable and stability is probably more important than actual numbers (within a certain window of acceptable parameters, I suppose). Long term true 0 is obviously not good.. we see tons of tanks with pale, sickly and stunted corals in true 0 nutrients.. but once nutrients are detectable, and depending on trace element/vitamin/amino/food additions, corals can really thrive.
I certainly think that nutrients in and around the 4ppm n and .04 ppm po4 up to 10 or even a bit higher than 10ppm n and .1 ppm po4 is probably the sweet spot.
There is also much discussion about the sweetspot ratio of 100/1 ratio of n to p. I've never been able to keep this relationship long enough to really see if it is truly beneficial or not but I have read Big E talk about it a lot and even site stats on previous totms and having this ratio..
So, I think that in your case, if your system tends to naturally run high in nutrients, fighting, at all costs, to drop them will probably end in frustration. However, I really like your attitude of attempting to keep a lid on nutrients but not battle them down to nothing.
No matter what our intentions are for our tanks, Mother Nature often has other intentions and I've learned that Mother Nature usually gets her way.
Your measured approach will pay off I think.
I may consider trying phosguard in my system since it's less aggressive than gfo and easier to deal with... my only concern is how dusty it is and the potential for an accumulation of aluminum in the system from extensive use.
 
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