Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail
- Thread starter reefmutt
- Start date
reefmutt
Active member
Ok.. well I didn't hate all my photos.. here's a bunch of macros..
New Aussie granulosa:
Hyacinthus:
Habanero:
Aussie blue stag:
Believe it or not.. an oddly color morphed frag of my pink matrix..
Pacman
And my peach dragon is doing well..
Tony!! I salute you!!! I bow down to your perseverance and patience to have gone through my whole thread. That is a true honor. My thread is a marathon and a half. I couldn't imagine going through it all.
I sincerely appreciate you doing that! Thanks man!
And thanks for asking about me. I am fine but I am once again supremely frustrated with my tank but trying to not do anything crazy or rash..
As you must be acutely aware, I have run my tank (mostly) with high nutrients and under a mix of mh,t5, led.
But recently I decided to give Fauna Marin a try... AND ditch the mh.
My old set up had 6 t5, 3 x 150w mh and 4 AI Prime.
That was a total pull of around 800w.. and I absolutely loved the light.
So I pulled the mh, added two more t5 and doubled my AI Primes.
Increased the blues a lot... too much.. put many corals into light stress and have now backed off to 6 AI Primes in a significantly reduced intensity..
THEN!!! I adopted Fauna Marin's MINs and Bak to reduce nutrients and started running gfo to pull po4 down..
dropped them too low and stressed the corals even more!!! Arrggggfff!!!!!
I never learn..
So now, I have things stabilized at n-4, p-.06-.08... but it's kind of too late.. corals are both light and nutrient stressed. Some are fine but generally colors are waaaay off and growth is sporadic.....
Even after 4 years of this thread being called "˜learning blah blah' I have not learned...
Since reducing the intensity, some corals have recovered a bit but many haven't or won't.
It is clear however that there are many so many gorgeous tanks with low nutrients - and fewer algea issues- so I am going to stick it out with Fauna Marin.. I am about to start the new MinS and am using organic.
I am also using a mix of reef vitality, Coral Balance and coral sprint. I mix them
Together 1:1:2 for the mixture.
I think it'll be easily 6 months before my tank transitions.. I'm going to stick it out and see...at least through 2019
But right now, I hate the photos I take and I am once again considering putting the mh back!!!!! Even with the aprox 300 w savings right now without them.
I may, down the road, try Fauna Marin's amino mix and the color elements but I'm holding myself back right now.. don't want to change even more...
So this is the main reason for my absence.. frustration... and no decent photos to post..
Well now..... that was cathartic!!deep breath....
Tony, once again thanks for going though my whole thread and sorry for the rant..
Im just glad to finally be a part of your epic thread, Matt!
I assume since you were quoting power draw numbers that your main reason in converting lights was to reduce electrical consumption? But you added 2 more t5s and 4 more primes, which gets back up pretty close to the 3 150s doesnt it? Especially since you really liked that light set up I wonder why the change. I can see bulb replacement as an attractive option, but there again you still added 2 bulbs back in, albeit cheaper.
As for the nutrients, what do you think the difference is between the great looking low nutrient tanks and how yours reacts? It's clearly not just high flux as you have a huge amount of nutrients moving through your system. I'm really curious because i feel like I'm finally to the point on my reef where stuff is starting to do well and not just be the exception. I think its due to raising my nitrates (over 10 now) although I'm struggling to bring phosphates up. I feel like im close to cracking the code, but your reasoning is making me scratch my head a bit for how it applies to my system.
reefmutt
Active member
You ask a very solid question about my lights... My tank is in the basement and there is little air circulation in that particular room.. I do have a vent that goes outside and a window air conditioning for summer so it's not totally closed off but heat can become an issue in summer..
And I'm just looking for efficiencies.
Old:
3 150w mh - 450w
6 t5 - 300 w
4 prime - about 100- 120
Total 850w
New:
8 t5 - 400w
6 Prime - about 150w-180w
Total 550w
The primes are never running near full capacity.. so new lighting is much more efficient.
I'm sort of trying to drag myself into the 21st century of reef keeping..
BUT.. I am not happy with it.. hm....
I'll have to think about it... but considering I changed my lights and then went and completely changed my nutrient system, I think I'm going to try to ride this out for several months.. I am seeing some promising signs in some corals..
Ok.. nutrients.. I agree with those who say the corals we keep are highly adaptable. They can adapt and become acclimated to conditions that are not those they were born into. But it takes time.
The best looking tanks have parameters that have been that way for a very long time- usually.. whether nutrients are high ish or ultra low..this speaks to two things: 1- stability which leads to two: the corals adapting to conditions available.
The only caveat here, imo, is slowly rising nutrients. I think that corals handle low nutrients, if they've acclimate to that just fine and will handle high nutrients if they've adapted to them and I find corals often handle slowly rising nutrients as well. But the thing they have the hardest time adapting to is going from high nutrient to very low.. and this is what I have done. So I think it's going to take a long time for my corps to adapt to the new conditions.. and not all will adapt..
I just so happened to change the two most important environmental elements of my reef at the same time.
I really believe that using my new lights and new water parameters, I can bring the tank back around..
some corals look better and acclimate better to high nutrients and others to low.. same goes for lighting.. some do better and/or look better under various lighting types..
Tony, if you feel positive about the direction your tank is going- if you are seeing positive signs in your tank, don't waver!! Keep on your track. I like 10ppm for n. I have absolutely no experience with low p.. it's an issue I've never experienced! I've always had the opposite. What is your p reading? If you have even a small amount, I wouldn't to alter it .. it'll rise with time.. it always does!
Yeah that definitely makes sense on your lighting switch between the heat issues and your power savings. Hopefully you grow tpnlike what the lighting does for your corals and the other benefits you were going for enough not to miss the MH too much. Ive thought about going a very similar direction with my lighting. Im currently running 6xt5 with about 150 watts of diy led strips, but like the idea of replacing the strips with some primes.
As for the nutrients, based on the reading and observing others tanks, im definitely on board with your thoughts. I have yet to have much experience with success on my tanks, but I definitely think my lack of successes were related to undetectable nutrients and not holding them or my lighting the same for long enough.
Currently i havent tested my nutrients in a while, but the last 2 tests, phosphates where pretty low. My nitrates have been slowly going up and phos steadily low. The highest reading i got without looking back at my notes was 12ppb (Hannah url Total P), which equates to .04 ish phosphate. My last test which was over 2 weeks ago was 2 ppb. Something to note is i had a decent amount of cyano back then, and almost none now, so it may have been sucking up phos where it isnt now.
Im definitely inclined not to change anything for a while. I did start dosing some Micro E since my lab test came back low in most of these elements, and dosing some iodine. I also want to start increasing my photoperiod as right now, my t5s are only on for 6 hours.
This tank is also only about 2 months old, but the system is a couple years old (same sump, lots of lr and sand carryover, same lighting etc). Also my success is measured by my corals seem to be happy, about 75 are showing some signs of actual growth, not just entrusting. Colors overall are improving, but some still yet to show much.
As for the nutrients, based on the reading and observing others tanks, im definitely on board with your thoughts. I have yet to have much experience with success on my tanks, but I definitely think my lack of successes were related to undetectable nutrients and not holding them or my lighting the same for long enough.
Currently i havent tested my nutrients in a while, but the last 2 tests, phosphates where pretty low. My nitrates have been slowly going up and phos steadily low. The highest reading i got without looking back at my notes was 12ppb (Hannah url Total P), which equates to .04 ish phosphate. My last test which was over 2 weeks ago was 2 ppb. Something to note is i had a decent amount of cyano back then, and almost none now, so it may have been sucking up phos where it isnt now.
Im definitely inclined not to change anything for a while. I did start dosing some Micro E since my lab test came back low in most of these elements, and dosing some iodine. I also want to start increasing my photoperiod as right now, my t5s are only on for 6 hours.
This tank is also only about 2 months old, but the system is a couple years old (same sump, lots of lr and sand carryover, same lighting etc). Also my success is measured by my corals seem to be happy, about 75 are showing some signs of actual growth, not just entrusting. Colors overall are improving, but some still yet to show much.
reefmutt
Active member
Sounds like you are on the right track.. I like micro e
I think your p is just fine. I wouldn’t try to artificially raise it. You may regret it...
Even though parts of the system are old, there’s probably been a lot of changes lately and things probably need to settle down a bit..
I think one of the best and worst things about about leds is their adjustability. Allows you to tune them to exactly how you want them but also allows to to constantly tinker which the corals don’t necessarily like..
I think your p is just fine. I wouldn’t try to artificially raise it. You may regret it...
Even though parts of the system are old, there’s probably been a lot of changes lately and things probably need to settle down a bit..
I think one of the best and worst things about about leds is their adjustability. Allows you to tune them to exactly how you want them but also allows to to constantly tinker which the corals don’t necessarily like..
markalot
...
I really really really want to like LED but I think the resulting light looks like crap. Just not agreeable to my eyes. I run mostly LED now, and 2 blue t5's. It works, and with the T5's on it's a little blue but ok. I tried running my white channel higher and it just looked bad, so while I don't have the Windex look it is noticeably blueish.
My smaller fixture has Mint led's rather than a white channel and it looks a lot better, i can tolerate LED only in that tank. This is an older fixture that has white and Lime and I just can't get the look I want.
My smaller fixture has Mint led's rather than a white channel and it looks a lot better, i can tolerate LED only in that tank. This is an older fixture that has white and Lime and I just can't get the look I want.
Green Chromis
New member
:fish1: Hi, what type of LED's are you using? :fish1:
markalot
...
They are pucks made by NanoBox. I'm not sure of the individual LED makers.
DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
Happy new year Matt.
reefmutt
Active member
reefmutt
Active member
Hey Guys, I figured I’d do a small update.. kind of half arsed phot wise since it’s a mix of iPhone pics and real camera pics..
here are the iPhone ones first.. as we know iphone over saturates everything. I tried to reduce the saturation a bit..
Here’s an fts for starters..
Top downs..
A little closer of that awesome hyacinthus..
And here’s my OP..
Next some real photos.. with real camera a few close ups..
here are the iPhone ones first.. as we know iphone over saturates everything. I tried to reduce the saturation a bit..
Here’s an fts for starters..
Top downs..
A little closer of that awesome hyacinthus..
And here’s my OP..
Next some real photos.. with real camera a few close ups..
reefmutt
Active member
Ok these shot with my macro lens..
some tenuis..
DARTH!!!
A tort and a planet..
Aussie stag.. growing slowly.
Closer..
This is supposed to be confetti.. right now it’s just tiny..
Recently, things are fairly stable.. p has been right around .07 with heavy rowa phos use. Alk has been steady at right around 7.. p has been climbed to 25ppm.. even with the use of a carbon source.. which was keeping it lower and then inexplicable, it climbed but stopped at 25. I’ve been very slowly increasing the Fauna Marin Bak.. taking it slow..
I started using Fauna’s color elements as well..
Some thing continue to color up, some sit there dormant and many are growing..
I’m not unhappy with the tank.. not blown away yet..
some tenuis..
DARTH!!!
A tort and a planet..
Aussie stag.. growing slowly.
Closer..
This is supposed to be confetti.. right now it’s just tiny..
Recently, things are fairly stable.. p has been right around .07 with heavy rowa phos use. Alk has been steady at right around 7.. p has been climbed to 25ppm.. even with the use of a carbon source.. which was keeping it lower and then inexplicable, it climbed but stopped at 25. I’ve been very slowly increasing the Fauna Marin Bak.. taking it slow..
I started using Fauna’s color elements as well..
Some thing continue to color up, some sit there dormant and many are growing..
I’m not unhappy with the tank.. not blown away yet..
reefmutt
Active member
Thanks, Mark.. yep.. still plugging away..
biecacka
Active member
Looking good man! You have em packed in here tight for sure. Will be awesome to continue watching them grow.
Also, how are you liking the FM products? Can you explain a little bit what you are using and the intended purpose of each one. I’m not familiar and I too have low n03 and p04. But, I was thinking I might feed more.
Corey
Also, how are you liking the FM products? Can you explain a little bit what you are using and the intended purpose of each one. I’m not familiar and I too have low n03 and p04. But, I was thinking I might feed more.
Corey
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reefmutt
Active member
Looking good man! You have em packed in here tight for sure. Will be awesome to continue watching them grow.
Also, how are you liking the FM products? Can you explain a little bit what you are using and the intended purpose of each one. I'm not familiar and I too have low n03 and p04. But, I was thinking I might feed more.
Corey
Thanks Corey, yeah, I have a mix of old colonies and new little frags.. it's a bit weird.. when the frags start to grow it'll be a tank o sardines..
As for Fauna, I'm not ready to say I love them or not- yet.
When my nutrient were high- n around 20-40 p around .1-.25, I was using no carbon sources but had a cheato fuge going. I was manually dosing several aquaforest products- build, vitality, fluorine, iodine, build as well as Prodibio Bioptim..I would say the tank was looking pretty good but algea issues were always popping up and I was getting sick and tired of all thebmanual labor.
So, I decided to adopt the Fauna line.. I started with Bak and Ultra MINs which are both carbon source nutrient reducers but ultra MINs has some aminos, vitamins and trace elements in it as well to help Coral adapt to dropping nutrients. These products were very efficient as dropping n.. I have to still use large amounts of gfo to hold p below.07..
Well, the corals didn't like much having their nutrients dropped.. I got some browning and stn.. as well as light stress (but this has to do more with my adding tons more led, which I've since reduced)
Anyways that was a couple months ago. Currently, I am still using Bak as a carbon source.. n has climbed back up to around 20 (I'm adjusting Bak accordingly) and adding more light to my cheato..
At one point, n was very low and p was still highish so I started adding Fauna's Organic- it's a macro element additive similar to AF's micro e but with "˜potassium compounds' which I assume means kno3
My intention was to keep using the Bak as nutrient reducer and then add back some nitrate in the Organic and thereby help naturally reduce p.
It may have worked somewhat because lately n is back up but p is a little easier to control..
I am also using Amin- which is their amino acid complex. This may also be part of the reason my n started to climb....
So in the last month, a few really stubbornly dormant corals have begun to get color back and I'm seeing slightly better pe generally...
The last thing I started was Fauna's trace element additives called Color elements. There are three bottles containing various trace elements for helping with most basically red, blue and green coloration.
So! I have a four head doser and two individual dosers for:
3 bottles color elements
Bak
Organic
Amin.
Fauna Marin recently changed then formulation of Ultra MINs and now calls it simply MINS.
It is a thick, orange liquid that stinks to high heck and must be added manually with a pipette. It consists mainly of minced arctic krill with added trace elements. I don't think it can claim to be a nutrient reducer anymore as it is thick with krill corpses!
I also mix Fauna's Coral Balance (which is a dry form of KZ's coral snow or AF's Build) Reef vitality (a bacterial binder which is supposed to attract bacteria and nitrate/po4 and make it consumable for corals) and Coral Sprint (a powdered coral food) - these three I take a couple pinches of and let it get sucked into my gyre to be spread out across the tank... the way I've done this - mixing them together in powdered form, may not be entirely condoned by Fauna but I am doing it in an effort to reduce labor...
So there you have it.... a lot of Fauna Marin products....
I have decided to commit to a year of Fauna Marin because I know it can take sps months and months to adapt or die when under new conditions... I want to give it a fare chance...
So it's a bit less labor intensive than before...
I suppose that if I really wanted easy, I could just stop everything ..... not going there...
Hope this helps!
DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
Thanks for the update Matt. Your tank looks really nice as usual even though you may not be happy with it. We like Matt's tank, don't we people?
Did the algae subside or disappear after starting our new regimen? You will not be disappointed with the FM products. Many reefers in Europe have success with their products.
When you write "P", do you mean Phosphorus, i.e. literally P, or phosphates, i.e. PO4?
Do you have a so-called pearlberry acro in your tank? If so, can I see a close-up picture of it please?
Did the algae subside or disappear after starting our new regimen? You will not be disappointed with the FM products. Many reefers in Europe have success with their products.
When you write "P", do you mean Phosphorus, i.e. literally P, or phosphates, i.e. PO4?
Do you have a so-called pearlberry acro in your tank? If so, can I see a close-up picture of it please?
