Led Lighting, really reef adequate?

[reefrefresh]

Thanks for the input. Luckily I have a great LFS. The owner made me aware of the new kessil. Not sure when its due to be released? Or if it will have significant advantage over the current kessils? Price is, as is usually the case, an issue. Looking to spend $500, and two of the kessil 160s are right on par. Are there any other options in this price range that I might have overlooked?

 

[slief]

Thanks for the input. Luckily I have a great LFS. The owner made me aware of the new kessil. Not sure when its due to be released? Or if it will have significant advantage over the current kessils? Price is, as is usually the case, an issue. Looking to spend $500, and two of the kessil 160s are right on par. Are there any other options in this price range that I might have overlooked?

The AP700 will be more than that. In your price range, I suggest you look in the Buy/Sell section here. You can get yourself a pair of lightly used 360WE's for right around your budget. On the other hand, you can't see the Buy Sell section until you get 50 meaningful posts so you will need to be patient to access that section of the forum.

 

[DrewGriffin]

Yes but quality is key in my opinion. I personally love LED lighting.

 

[Perth_reefer]

Thanks for the input. Luckily I have a great LFS. The owner made me aware of the new kessil. Not sure when its due to be released? Or if it will have significant advantage over the current kessils? Price is, as is usually the case, an issue. Looking to spend $500, and two of the kessil 160s are right on par. Are there any other options in this price range that I might have overlooked?

I'd definitely be looking around used sections, eBay, Gumtree etc. The owner of you're LFS made you aware of the brand new expensive kessil that's coming out......That's lucky!!
I'd possibly make two lists, fixtures you like but are out of price range and fixtures that are in price range. Then hit the used adds looking for the fixtures that are out of your price range, you may pick up a bargain, people are shutting down reef tanks all the time.

 

[dz6t]

In additional to kessil, take a look at Hydra 26 or AI prime

 

[vhuang168]

What are your PAR readings? Do you have Acropora?

Zoanthus like moderate lighting, so while you may be getting enough light to bleach them, it may not be enough light for high light demanding corals such as Acropora.

Yup. Stylos n birdsnest (ponape, bird of paradise) have to be put lower or they start to bleach.

 

[inktomi]

If you haven't already bought your tank, you might look at a 75 gallon instead of the 65. It's longer - but a couple inches shorter. That will make it easier to get light to the bottom.

Kessil makes great lights, but they're very much single point sources. I'd go with 2 or 3 360's if you can, or even the AP700 if you can (when it's out). Both of these fixtures are spectrum controllable which is a great perk that LEDs have over T5 and Metal Halide lights

 

[DavidinGA]

Yes (to answer the question).

 

[zoomonster]

You broached probably the most contentious subject in reef keeping and you will have to decide (plenty of opinions either way). I have for years run MH with T5 or VHO. In a perfect world I'd still be running MH but it causes too many issues for me and I switched for this tank.

I agree with D2mini... light specs for most purposes are overrated. I got rid of MH/T5 and went with Kessil 360WE's at three to start since they are rated 24x24 and my tank is 72 x 24 x 27. My first thought was oh **** what did I do. The tank was down right dark even at 100% power. My tank is mixed but about 80% SPS. The layout of my tank with center overflow, cross bracing etc. was such I could add two more and pretty evenly space. I couldn't be much happier with growth, coloration, lack of heat and the fact my E bill and tank/room temps have both gone down. I run several ramp profiles on Apex but my peak setting is 80% power and 77% color. Not only is the tank brighter but the extra two lights cut down on shadowing and excessive shimmer. They are all on goosenecks and I have virtually no light spillage.

 

[Icefire]

Forget AI prime those are for nano

look for at least 160w per 24x24 coverage

 

[Perth_reefer]

Yup. Stylos n birdsnest (ponape, bird of paradise) have to be put lower or they start to bleach.

Exactly what I'm saying. LEDs are so focussed that they can bleach anything directly underneath them so you either lower the intensity at the expense of lighting in other areas or lower your corals. Unless you have enough fixtures of course.

 

[vhuang168]

Exactly what I'm saying. LEDs are so focussed that they can bleach anything directly underneath them so you either lower the intensity at the expense of lighting in other areas or lower your corals. Unless you have enough fixtures of course.

Not really. You said poor light spread. If I followed your advise on 1 fixture per foot, I would need at least 2 for my 33x18 tank. At the moment, 1 is more than enough.

Light spread can be adjusted by raising or lowering the fixture. If you don't have that option, then lowering the intensity and getting more fixtures is another way to get the similar results.

Blanket statements like "you will need 1 fixture for every foot" is what causes all these questions for people.

If I lowered my light so I don't get as much spread, I can lower my intensity to get the same amount of light for the top and less on the sides n bottom.

And I am planning on doing just that.

 

[mgraf]

Only an opinion here. I love led lighting. I've had AI fixtures, I e had Rapid LED fixtures, metal halides, and T-5's. I am a mixed reef guy. IMO, hard to beat T5's for a mixed reef. Just my .02.

 

[jminick2]

over kill.

Most led fixture suppliers give fairly realistic coverage claims.

-1

 

[jminick2]

Yup. Stylos n birdsnest (ponape, bird of paradise) have to be put lower or they start to bleach.

I have a hard time taking your guidance on lighting when you consider stylos and birdnests to be on the same level as acropora when it comes to lighting.

 

[jminick2]

I am reentering the reef tank community. Years ago Led lighting just wasnt an option.
These days I am setting up a standard 65 gallon mixed reef. And I am
pretty sold on purchasing two of the kessil 160 lights. Please tell me
does Led lighting really produce the quality and quantity of light
necessary for my future corals to thrive. I am reading the literature.
But I would appreciate any first-hand experience or knowledge
of the efficacy of these fancy new lights, lol. Are there any specific
corals or inverts that simply won't adjust properly to the leds?
Does anyone actually have a healthy thriving reef under leds?
Any input is welcomed. Thank you.

bottom line...ONE MH fixture is still better than any one single LED fixture hands down no competition.

 

[Steve Atkins]

I have found LEDs adequate so far, but I am using more LED fixtures than I used MH bulbs and this is on a smaller tank. It is also 40% more LED fittings than the manufacturer recomended (done for coverage as much as anything).

So the capital cost was high but the power consumption is such that the fittings will pay for themselves in about 3 years.

Everything seems to be growing, including a birdsnest sitting in a bottom front corner. Some colours are better than under MH, most are the same and one is worse.

 

[DavidinGA]

Led+T5's is what I run = best of both worlds and still way less heat than mh (only real reason I'm not running mh).

 

[Perth_reefer]

I have a hard time taking your guidance on lighting when you consider stylos and birdnests to be on the same level as acropora when it comes to lighting.

+1

Not really. You said poor light spread. If I followed your advise on 1 fixture per foot, I would need at least 2 for my 33x18 tank. At the moment, 1 is more than enough.

Light spread can be adjusted by raising or lowering the fixture. If you don't have that option, then lowering the intensity and getting more fixtures is another way to get the similar results.

Blanket statements like "you will need 1 fixture for every foot" is what causes all these questions for people.

If I lowered my light so I don't get as much spread, I can lower my intensity to get the same amount of light for the top and less on the sides n bottom.

And I am planning on doing just that.

Of course you can raise your light at the expense of PAR, or you can lower your light at the expense of spread....but people wanting full acropora tanks need both.

Here are my PAR levels from when I was running Hydra52s at 11" off the water surface at 100%

14k100 by kenpau01, on Flickr

At mid tank level I was getting 450 PAR directly below the fixture but 60 on the glass, a massive drop off. For the coral I wanted to keep the light spread wasn't there, I could have raised the lights but would have dropped PAR in doing so. That was with 3 fixtures, by your logic I could raise the lights and run with two for total light spread at high enough PAR to grow Acropora, I'm sorry but after running the tank and putting a Quantum meter on it myself I don't agree.
You're welcome to prove me wrong though, if you can show me a 3ft full SPS dominated reef tank with one Hydra52/Radion/Kessil fixture.

Led+T5's is what I run = best of both worlds and still way less heat than mh (only real reason I'm not running mh).

I'm a massive advocate of LED lighting, would never run a tank without them, but I agree after adding T5s there is definitely an improvement in growth and colour results.

 

[vhuang168]

I have a hard time taking your guidance on lighting when you consider stylos and birdnests to be on the same level as acropora when it comes to lighting.

+1



Of course you can raise your light at the expense of PAR, or you can lower your light at the expense of spread....but people wanting full acropora tanks need both.

Here are my PAR levels from when I was running Hydra52s at 11" off the water surface at 100%

14k100 by kenpau01, on Flickr

At mid tank level I was getting 450 PAR directly below the fixture but 60 on the glass, a massive drop off. For the coral I wanted to keep the light spread wasn't there, I could have raised the lights but would have dropped PAR in doing so. That was with 3 fixtures, by your logic I could raise the lights and run with two for total light spread at high enough PAR to grow Acropora, I'm sorry but after running the tank and putting a Quantum meter on it myself I don't agree.
You're welcome to prove me wrong though, if you can show me a 3ft full SPS dominated reef tank with one Hydra52/Radion/Kessil fixture.



I'm a massive advocate of LED lighting, would never run a tank without them, but I agree after adding T5s there is definitely an improvement in growth and colour results.

1) You asked if I had Acro. I said yes. Then qualified it by noting that SPS with lower light needs HAVE to be put lower or they will bleach. Meaning light up top is enough for Acros and too much for others SPS.

2) What kind of tank did the OP ask lighting for? A mixed reef. NOT a full Acro tank. Does he still need 1 Hydra 52 per foot? Does he want Acros from glass to glass? Does he want acros on top, LPS on bottom? Or Acros top, LPS middle, softy on bottom? Do you know? If you don't, how can you advice how many Hydra 52s he needs?

My point was your blanket statement about needing 1 LED fixture per foot is too broad for ALL tanks. In your case of wanting a full acro tank then yes, you need more than 1 LED fixture to get the appropriate light spread and par.
But not everyone wants a full acro tank. My needs are for a mixed reef, more LPS dominate than anything and 1 Hydra 52 is more than enough FOR ME.

If you want to give advice, then qualify what you advice with relevant data to explain what you mean. Eg, you need 1 LED fixture per foot of tank if you want to have enough par and light coverage to have a full Acro tank. This way, someone wanting a LPS only tank will know that is too much light and think about buying 2 lights for a 36"ish tank and someone wanting a softy tank will know that 1 light will be enough for him. Giving data like your last post would also be very beneficial for someone researching light needs.

Anyone reading your advice of needing 1 light per foot with no qualifiers will think that is what he needs regardless of what he wants to keep which while will be more than adequate, puts off many potential buyers thinking they need to spend that much $ for enough light to keep zoas when he needs to spend only 1/3.

It is posts like yours that breed confusion about LED lighting needs and lead to misconceptions about LED light spreads and power. Who knows how many have 2 Hydra 52 fixtures over a 24"X12"X10" tank to have mushrooms and zoas because that's what he read he needs.

But do what you want. Its a free forum to give advice as you like, relevant or not. And I think we've hijacked this thread enough.