LED: When to get in the game?

[eastfernstreet]

Almost posted this in the "New To Hobby" forum but feared that I'd miss some of the expertise found over here. Apologies if that was a bad move.

I got in the hobby last fall. Everything's great. I'm developing patience, have stable conditions, low bio-load and read a great deal before I make my moves.

Here's the question: If, as an experienced reefer, you were six months into the hobby like me, and were having great success with your T5's, etc., how long would you expect it to take (or how long could you wait) for LED's to become cost effective? They are cheaper to make, cheaper to ship, cheaper to operate. When to you think they'll be the right move for a relative newcomer?

I have no doubt that this is the future of aquarium lighting. Two years? Five? When should I tell my wife?

Thanks to all!

 

[Coralfrager]

I'm going to give it a few more years before I get rid of my MH

 

[usmc121581]

^ +1 I am not risking my $1,000's of dollars in coral to switch lights now. Even thought 3-mh coat me I know they work great.

 

[Dave Thebrewguy]

At the current state of technology, your best opportunity has already passed.
I would never count on any new thing being so much better that there is one point in time that makes it the right time to switch to a new one. Should I buy a new car now or wait until fall and get a 2014. Of course by then its just one more year until the 2015s come out, will they be better?
LEDs aren't going to get much cheaper and neither are bulb replacements for T-5s or MH. The cost of entry is high with LEDs but the running cost is low compared to other types of lighting. The best time to switch is when you are buying a new fixture anyway. If you just bought a T-5 fixture, you missed your best chance. The next time will be when that T-5 fixture dies.
As far as light goes, they are already equal. Good LED = good T-5 = good MH. Bad LED = bad T-5 = bad MH.

 

[eastfernstreet]

Thanks @Davethebrewguy

Depressing . . but quite possisbly true.

What kind of brew?

 

[Treg]

Here's the question: If, as an experienced reefer, you were six months into the hobby like me, and were having great success with your T5's.......

In my Decade+ experience in the hobby If I have learned any one thing - When you are having Great Success with something, leave it alone!

 

[CHSUB]

future of reef light??? imo,ime led are good for some corals, but not all corals. if you want sps's some day skip leds and get MH.

 

[reefmutt]

have to agree with Treg and Dave..

I am about to set up a new tank and after much research, i will be going led.
the latest generation of good quality led lights with leds that produce light right down to 400nm, in my opinion, will do as good a job as any other type of light.
however, if i had a t5 fixture that was giving me great results already, i don't think i would be changing to leds

 

[jmadison]

In my Decade+ experience in the hobby If I have learned any one thing - When you are having Great Success with something, leave it alone!

+1000

LEDs are new and great, but there are AMAZING tanks on this vary site that still swear by their t5s and/or MHs. And they have the photos and logs to prove it.

And it's like USMC said the stress caused by changing to a new light source(let alone new bulbs on your current setup) can put all your past 6 months hard work in jeopardy. The most tragic thing in this hobby is losing the YEARS of growth in the coral or fish. It's not hard to find another "Hot Tyree Fox LE Tubbs" coral(especially with a good reef society), but getting the 6 months-1 year-5 years of growth back... well that takes LOTS of time.

If it isn't broke...

 

[Seanthefish]

I know many people, including myself that went LED and switched back to MH because the results wernt BETTER then what they had before (MH for me)

When I buy something, I want to put it on and say immediately WOW this is better.

This didnt happen with my LED unit and I went back to MH and supplement actinic lighting with a kessil

 

[that Fish Guy]

When to get into the game?

Whenever you want if you want to some.

Like others have said some people love LED and some people will never go to LED because they like MH or T5HO.

But in all seriousness.

LED's are like computers every year they get better and cheaper and every year new LED Fixtures are invented.

Personally, I would wait until after the Next MACNA.

A lot of LED's are updated or released around this time as it is the biggest reef show of the year.

I really want the Maxspect Razor LED but I am trying to hold out for the Gen 2 Razor as it may have more LED's, a Controller, etc.

I think that Gen 2 LED's will have the most upgrades over Gen 3+ LED's as the manufacturer would get the most feedback of what people want after their original LED system is made.

I hope that helps.

 

[GroktheCube]

IMHO, if it aint broke. I used LEDs setting up my new tank, but if I already had a good T5 fixture I would not have bothered doing so. As far as I can see, LEDs have a few advantages: Lower power consumption, easy dimming, and possibility with some models to adjust color on the fly.

T5s are reliable, proven technology. They work, they aren't THAT power hungry compared to MH, they don't put out as much heat as MH, and the entry cost is very reasonable. They're still an excellent option. I'm helping my GF set up a 40 breeder, and got a 4x39W T5 fixture new for under a hundred bucks. LEDs would have been at least triple the cost, and it would have taken years to recoup the difference. Nothing wrong with T5s.

 

[synofreak]

I'm with everybody......I've run 6x80W T5 2 times....2 tanks. Great success. One of my tanks sprung a leak and I downsized to a 2' cube. Not much those 5' lights are gonna do. Switched to LED's ....LOVE them. Switch when its time to buy bulbs................=p

 

[jrp1588]

I went from a high end ati sunpower t5 fixture to a couple Chinese black box LED fixtures. If anything my SPS growth increased. I did no extensive acclimation process. Mine aren't even dimmable. I just raised them a bit at first. Look into the leds they have at reef breeders. Very reasonably priced, name brand leds. Their higher end fixtures are even programmable.

 

[Windirmere]

Led's from the start Led's in the near future, Just thinking about having a MH in my room in the summer makes me cringe.

 

[lhm nole]

Decades a go I used vho combo with mh and I loved it then fast forward 10 years and the new thing was t5 and I absolutely hated them . Then came Leds a friend of mine own a store and swears by them so due to rising electric cost only way I was going to do another reef tanks was with leds and 6 months later I am very happy with them and even though mh/vho colors were a little better willing to sacrifice that for less running cost.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I've been playing in this hobby for 8+ years now. I had a great MH, t5 led system over my 180g DT full of sps & lps corals. BTW, my DT lighting system cost me about $800 used and would have cost $1300 or more new. I traded an old MH for a used Eco Tech Radion led and it worked GREAT over my frag tank. At that point I knew that led technology had arrived (multi spectral, dimmable, controllable and repairable). But at $750 each and the need for 4 over my 180g and 1 over my 70g anemone tank, 2 over my 55g QT, I was looking at over $5000 for my entire system ($6000 if you count the one I traded for). There is no way I can justify that expense just for light I was already getting from MH and t5 fixtures. Screw the electrical savings and possible 10 year life expectancy.

Then I found EverGrow and did a group buy with my local club. I got all the leds I wanted (including one to replace the OVERPRICED Eco Tech Radion) for $1200. That's 2 of the IT2080 for my 180g DT, an IT2040 for my nem tank and 3 of the D120 fixtures, 2 for the QT and 1 for the frag tank. I sold the Radion for more than what I paid for 2 of the D120's!
The IT series has built in timer/controller and moonlights. My DT went from 10 power cords and 5 timers all for lights, to just 2 power cords and no timers! They have been running 24/7 for over 3 months now and my sps, lps and soft corals are growing just as good, maybe better, than with four 250watt MH. My chiller hardy runs, and best of all, my tank looks SO MUCH BETTER! So leds don't have to cost any more than a good MH/t5 fixture, they are easier to make color changes in the tank, they run cooler, use less electricity and don't need replacement bulbs evey 6-12 months.

So to the OP's question: "If, as an experienced reefer, you were six months into the hobby like me, and were having great success with your T5's, etc., how long would you expect it to take (or how long could you wait) for LED's to become cost effective? They are cheaper to make, cheaper to ship, cheaper to operate. When to you think they'll be the right move for a relative newcomer?" The answer is NOW!!!

BTW, I see you live in Tampa. You need to get hooked up with the Tampa Bay Reef Club. They just did a big group buy for EverGrow lights. Our club joined them and I think 20-25 lights were purchased!

 

[Ricunger]

Well said Ron!

 

[Christian J]

how long would you expect it to take (or how long could you wait) for LED's to become cost effective?

I'm not sure if it will ever be cost effective to sell an existing MH/T5 fixture just to get an equivalent LED instead. With "equivalent" I don't just mean PAR, but also color rendition, no color banding, build quality etc. Once LED fixtures become as good or better than MH/T5 fixtures in the same price range, maybe you won't get much money for selling your used MH/T5 fixture. And until then, the higher price of the best LED fixtures may not make them cost effective despite the savings on electricity and replacement bulbs/tubes.

But it could also be that prices of average quality LED fixtures keep dropping, while the best ones remain expensive. High quality enclosures (ATI and Giesemann?) should cost the same regardless of the lamps inside, and producers making an effort to produce a good color spectrum (EcoTech?) may always charge a premium for that. That said, there will probably be LED upgrade kits for existing MH/T5 fixtures.

 

[that Fish Guy]

I'm with everybody......I've run 6x80W T5 2 times....2 tanks. Great success. One of my tanks sprung a leak and I downsized to a 2' cube. Not much those 5' lights are gonna do. Switched to LED's ....LOVE them. Switch when its time to buy bulbs................=p

This is a very good point.

If your current T5 bulbs are old and in need of replacing that would also be a good time to go LED.

Instead of buying 100 dollars worth of new bulbs put that hundred dollars towards the LED you want.

Then that 500 dollar LED now just dropped to 400 since you would not have to buy those bulbs.

To me that helps justifying buying LED's