LED's are bad for our Hobby

b7fig

New member
Yes, I said it! LED lighting is bad for our hobby.

Before some people go ballistic, yes LED can grow corals and yes its perfect for supplemental lighting or fish only, but for reef tanks, it's causing so many problems.

I've been doing this hobby for 13 years. I started with MH lighting, along with power compacts, and T5's. My tanks were always great, growth was amazing, corals were happy and rarely lost one.

Then, somewhere around 6-7 years ago, I got on the LED band wagon and changed everything to LED. Things changed, lost corals and corals not happy.
I went through approximately 5 brands of LED's, with multiple versions of each one, finally ending with Radion Gen 3's trying to find the best LED lighting. I've spent no less then 25k+ on different lighting systems all to find the perfect system. Never in that time did I have the simplicity, colors or growth then I did with my very first MH system.

I recently just went back to a MH/T5 combo and not going to look back. It's amazing the almost instant growth and coloration I got with the MH. I'm ticked off at all the money I've dropped on lighting systems when the original technology was and still is the best for SPS.

During that time with the LED's, I always thought it was something else. Chasing numbers! My phosphates and nitrates were to high, my alk was to low, magnesium was off, my PH was to low. Now I need a CO2 scrubber, dose carbon, this and that. My first few years in the hobby, I hardly tested, just did water changes and my tanks always looked good and simply worked.

Folks, think about this. Look at the forums. Hundreds and thousands of posts about LED lighting. Everyday, new posts about LED one way or another. Big red flag???

If your on the forums, your either a fanatic (like me) or a newbie trying to figure out what the hell your doing. Most of the posts about LED are, I have no PE, colors are fading, wilting away, RTN, or dying.

Think back before your very first fish tank when you knew nothing. Now maybe your LFS is setting up your first reef tank. They sell you these cool LED lights with Disco lights and lighting storms. Cool right. No!! You know nothing about about your aquarium, much less about spectrum, intensity, etc. You start playing with it and you like it brighter, so you turn the whites all the way up. Anybody who's had LED's knows, you just fried your corals. There are way to many other issues with reef aquariums to have to worry about the lights. They are simply lights for goodness sake, ***. Its not that complicated.

Before the LED rage, you could buy a basic aquarium, throw a power compact or T5 on the tank, do your weekly water changes and for a lot of people it worked. Plain and simple. A lot of people for years had pretty successful tanks doing just that.

Now, with LED, it's always something. Spectrum, intensity, duration,blues, whites, yellows, reds, UV, spread, shading, single point diode, blending, wide angle, reflectors, and hot spots, just to name a few.:crazy1: Most of the people who have had success are very experienced and have spent a lot of times on these forums researching the best settings etc. Again, its just freaking lights, it shouldn't be this complicated.

If you are brand new to the hobby and all of your corals quickly die, how long are you going to be in this hobby? Even for people who've been in it for a while, but seem to keep having problems, how long are they going to continue throwing money down the drain before getting frustrated and quitting?

I have no doubt that at some point, LED will be the light source of the future, its just not there yet. And until it is, I will no longer be its Guinea pig.

So I say again, LED's are bad for our Hobby!
 
Last edited:
There are a bunch of different ways to skin a cat(where did this expression come from?).....

I get what your saying. I've bought many different Led products and built several others.

Long story short my T5 setup completely blows away the led setups as far as growth and color. Its "easy".....i keep my parameters stable and in the good range have a good bioload feed the fish so they are healthy and bingo..

This is just my feeling and observation with my personal tank.
 
I kind of agree with this and I have LEDs right now. I have 3 AI sol blues over my 125 and my corals really don't grow. I have a anemone that sits right under the light (literally 3-4 inches away from the light) and has not grown since I got it over 8 months ago. my sps doesn't die, but it doesn't grow...it literally just survives. the only sps that has made any progress is a purple stylo but the color is not the best. the only things that seem to do well in my tank are zoas, but even they aren't exploding.

I am currently in the market to buy a house, and with the house I plan on upgrading to a 180g. I am leaning heavily on selling my 3 Sols and going MH. I don't know anyone personally in this hobby so I can only go by what I read on the forums, but you rarely see MH complaint threads. you constantly see LED problems and I think even more people are having problems and just don't know it. my only concern with MH is the heat and that's really the only thing that's holding me back. this tank has always been the center of the living space and I don't have a chiller now. I really don't want to have one in the house either, so I'm trying to come up with a open canopy design that would let the air cool the lights down.
 
You seem like you need a drink, lol!

LOL. Agree. :lol:

In all seriousness, at one point I thought there is no way LED's can colour up Acropora as nicely as MH or T5. I have been convinced that LED's can. It is maybe a little harder to achieve, but I have seen some great tanks in person that were lit with Radions or Hydra52's.

I love MH, but use T5 and LED in the form of the ATI LED Powermodule, so I have no reason to say that Radions and Hydra52's are good other than the fact that I have seen the results myself in person.

Main issue for LED's now is the light coverage and cost.
 
Led

Led

LOL. Agree. :lol:

In all seriousness, at one point I thought there is no way LED's can colour up Acropora as nicely as MH or T5. I have been convinced that LED's can. It is maybe a little harder to achieve, but I have seen some great tanks in person that were lit with Radions or Hydra52's.

I love MH, but use T5 and LED in the form of the ATI LED Powermodule, so I have no reason to say that Radions and Hydra52's are good other than the fact that I have seen the results myself in person.

Main issue for LED's now is the light coverage and cost.

Yes, I probably need a drink, but that's an everyday thing.

Anyway, the point of my rant was the fact for the beginning hobbyist, with no experience, LED's can be the kiss of death. Even for an experienced hobbyist, its a pain with a long learning curve for most people. Not to mention, you need twice as many lights to get the same coverage. And when you get it all figured out, you still may not have as nice as colors or growth with MH's.

I have seen a couple of tanks that looked good with LED, they all started out with it took me a while to get them dialed in, and I had to get a few more sets of lights as the corals started growing, but they work.

Every LFS I go into, is always pushing LED's. (I travel a lot, so i see quite a few of them). As a beginning hobbyist, your not going to have a clue what you are doing and more than likely, not have success with them causing them to exit the hobby.

MH and T5 just work. No tinkering or long learning curve or the need to add 4 more fixtures to get the coverage I need.

I simply feel a lot more people would be successful if they would just use the old school lighting. I'll go pour myself a drink now. :bdaysmile:
 
MH and T5 just work. No tinkering or long learning curve or the need to add 4 more fixtures to get the coverage I need.

That is because early adopters of the tech worked all that on for you and passed on the knowledge. LED is in the learning stage now, not much different than when other things were new. Things are getting worked out not sure how long it will take to mature it enough for the average user to have a good chance, but if no one ever uses it that will never happen.
 
I think there is Pos and Neg to both. I used to run MH/T5 and that ran my PG&E thru the roof with the cost of running the lights plus the chiller going off every hour but corals did look good. With LED I have no chiller and the cost to run the lights is cheaper but corals do grow well and the color is great IMO
 
LEDs arent causing the issues you're addressing, it's inexperience. There isnt a single aspect of reef keeping that you can blindly enter and hope to have positive results. Add some hungry salesmen, a huge knock-off market, and a desire to try something new and you have a recipe for trouble but to blame it on LEDs just isnt accurate.

Ignorant hobbyist, place blame where it belongs.
 
If you have been around long enough you can recall this kind of complaints about T-5, the ever popular radium lamp and lots of other things. Took some folks some time to work out the proper operating configurations that people use and are successful with now. None of that showed up in the hobby 100% ready for prime time.
 
Totally agree. LEDS require a long time of tinkering with each individual tank since no tank is exactly the same. It took a close personal friend 2 years to get his LED setup to work right for his tank. He ended up doubling the LED fixtures, and now his tank is thriving. Now he spends more money a month than his old setup which was 3 250W's.

LEDs are close to being as good as MH/T5 as a standalone light source, but imo currently they are not there yet. And I think it has a lot to do with the user not seeing results overnight, and tinkering with intensity etc.

If someone made a LED light that just simply worked out of the box without so many different configurations, it would work. If a company said you need X amount of fixtures, on X setting, X high above your sanded, for X amount of time, it would use X amount of power and had data to back it up... they indeed would make a killing.
 
LEDs arent causing the issues you're addressing, it's inexperience. There isnt a single aspect of reef keeping that you can blindly enter and hope to have positive results. Add some hungry salesmen, a huge knock-off market, and a desire to try something new and you have a recipe for trouble but to blame it on LEDs just isnt accurate.

Ignorant hobbyist, place blame where it belongs.

well said
 
Totally agree. LEDS require a long time of tinkering with each individual tank since no tank is exactly the same. It took a close personal friend 2 years to get his LED setup to work right for his tank. He ended up doubling the LED fixtures, and now his tank is thriving. Now he spends more money a month than his old setup which was 3 250W's.

LEDs are close to being as good as MH/T5 as a standalone light source, but imo currently they are not there yet. And I think it has a lot to do with the user not seeing results overnight, and tinkering with intensity etc.

If someone made a LED light that just simply worked out of the box without so many different configurations, it would work. If a company said you need X amount of fixtures, on X setting, X high above your sanded, for X amount of time, it would use X amount of power and had data to back it up... they indeed would make a killing.

Many manufacturers do but hobbyists insist they know better and try to reinvent the wheel.
 
Every tanks different. I've seen beautiful SPS tank with all colonies growth from frags using LED. I also saw SPS tank with t5s only.
My tank never got luck under MH but under T5s sps doing pretty well. (I don't try LED yet)
So I assume light is not the factor decide the success of the tank.
 
I'll be listening to Dr. Sanjay Joshi talk about converting his 500g from MH to LED this weekend at Reef Currents. I'm curious to hear his thoughts.
 
I agree much of the issue you cite is how young LED lighting of reefs is relative to others. I too remember when T5 was subject to the same issues you describe.

They're all great sources of light. All three of my tanks are lit by LED and are thriving.

If I had ONE complaint about LED fixtures, it is that most of the early ones did not show off greens, reds, oranges, etc. very well. Now, LED fixtures have a broader color spectrum that helps. For instance, my melanarus wrasse under my old T5 fixture was much prettier than under my reefbrite XHO LEDs.
 
Yes, I probably need a drink, but that's an everyday thing.

Anyway, the point of my rant was the fact for the beginning hobbyist, with no experience, LED's can be the kiss of death. Even for an experienced hobbyist, its a pain with a long learning curve for most people. Not to mention, you need twice as many lights to get the same coverage. And when you get it all figured out, you still may not have as nice as colors or growth with MH's.

I have seen a couple of tanks that looked good with LED, they all started out with it took me a while to get them dialed in, and I had to get a few more sets of lights as the corals started growing, but they work.

Every LFS I go into, is always pushing LED's. (I travel a lot, so i see quite a few of them). As a beginning hobbyist, your not going to have a clue what you are doing and more than likely, not have success with them causing them to exit the hobby.

MH and T5 just work. No tinkering or long learning curve or the need to add 4 more fixtures to get the coverage I need.

I simply feel a lot more people would be successful if they would just use the old school lighting. I'll go pour myself a drink now. :bdaysmile:

I hope you took no offence to my comment about needing a drink. Was just joking there. :)

I agree with you that with MH things just work. I remember my 2nd reef tank was run with a 250w halide: I didnt use GFO/GAC/Carbon dosing...nothing. Just a skimmer and water changes. Corals were colourful still. I used to manually dose kalk each night. It was easy to get colours in the acros.
 
I have to agree with you p, I run 2 tanks, led and t5. The led has massive problems with everything. It isn't as good coloration and the corals don't look as good. The t5 are on my 60g which is KISS which is the best way :)
 
I to have been a LED fan however tomorrow I am purcahsing a MH/T5HO fixture from Hamilton because my reef just doesnt do much, Growth is terrible even though paramaters are perfect I just think as much as I have loved them LEDs have a ways to come before they will out do MH/T5HO
 
Back
Top