k4ndyk1ng
New member
Shame it's too far. I like my LFS they have stopped me buying things because they thought I was going to quick...
LED's are bad for our Hobby
- Thread starter b7fig
- Start date
Shame it's too far. I like my LFS they have stopped me buying things because they thought I was going to quick...
reef bloke
Member
That is correct Sahin, due to the rock structure , coral growth and layout he has 2 tubes at the front as fill lights for his LPS. He has just had stretcher plates made up to space his 52's wider apart and he plans to put another 2 at the front in their place. He is considering setting up a new tank however I think , I'll be there in line for frags if he does lol
led lighting is great and from my own personal experience although be it with simple PAR38's and normal AI fixture's.
To get the color and growth you need atleast 5 different colored LED's in the lamp.
You need cyan/green Red, cool white's, warm white's and Royal blue 450nm, they have to be atleast 3w's a piece or they aren't worth messing with, you have to also factor in optics and spread, i prefered 60 degree optics over 40 just because LED's do put out a ton of PAR which has been measured by me and lots of other people.
i think people expect instant results with something that takes atleast 1-2 months for a lot of coral's to acclimate too, which inturn means starting at a low intensity and bumping it up slowly overtime, all new corals are always placed low or on the bottom for the first 2-3 weeks and then moved up.
Vodka 70 proof was the best thing i have ever found to work on all my reef setups, it's 1 drop per 30g and was netting results faster than my lighting was, keeping in mind that alk, calc, and mag were all are proper level's a 9-10 hour photo period seemed to always net the best results for me.
The more spectrums you can cover with LED's the better, MH is simpler as it provides all of these in 1 bulb, although be it more expensive on electricity overtime it is a set it and forget it method, i always went with pheonix 14k bulbs and have never seen a MH bulb other than a radium 20k make corals grow and have the best color, leds can do it but you definatly need as many spectrums as you can get if your going to use them.
To get the color and growth you need atleast 5 different colored LED's in the lamp.
You need cyan/green Red, cool white's, warm white's and Royal blue 450nm, they have to be atleast 3w's a piece or they aren't worth messing with, you have to also factor in optics and spread, i prefered 60 degree optics over 40 just because LED's do put out a ton of PAR which has been measured by me and lots of other people.
i think people expect instant results with something that takes atleast 1-2 months for a lot of coral's to acclimate too, which inturn means starting at a low intensity and bumping it up slowly overtime, all new corals are always placed low or on the bottom for the first 2-3 weeks and then moved up.
Vodka 70 proof was the best thing i have ever found to work on all my reef setups, it's 1 drop per 30g and was netting results faster than my lighting was, keeping in mind that alk, calc, and mag were all are proper level's a 9-10 hour photo period seemed to always net the best results for me.
The more spectrums you can cover with LED's the better, MH is simpler as it provides all of these in 1 bulb, although be it more expensive on electricity overtime it is a set it and forget it method, i always went with pheonix 14k bulbs and have never seen a MH bulb other than a radium 20k make corals grow and have the best color, leds can do it but you definatly need as many spectrums as you can get if your going to use them.
rovster
New member
Come on people all lighting systems work! I am not an LED fanboy but I've seen with my own eyes that they work. I am running three Radion's over my tank and color and growth have been fine. That said for the record if I had a do over on my own tank I would definitely have gone with a metal halide, T5 fixture, with blue LED supplements.
I started the hobby with LEDs in a little nano. That tank was awesome and grew easy SPS with ease and acros grew okay but the color was questionable. That may very well have been due to my inexperience and or the very small volume of water causing fluctuations.
I bought my Radion pros before I had a chance to try any other lighting system since I had what I thought was good success with my LED lit nano. My build got delayed and due to overgrowth in my nano and making way for my larger tank I transferred all my stock into a 30 gallon tank. I decided to try an experiment and give it the old college try and listen to my elders and threw a 250 Radium over that tank. I feel like growth was better in that tank and colors were absolutely better in that tank but I'm not sure if that was due to me being more experienced or the doubling of the volume of water or just my corals getting larger and expressing better colors as mini colonies compared to frags.
Now that I have my larger tank up and those corals under the Radion LEDs I can't really say I've seen a big difference in growth. I do think the color was slightly better under the halide but then again my tank is still young. But by no means what I consider what I've seen under my Radions poor color.
I do think that the OP was a little out of line and I can sort of understand some of the frustration but discounting LEDs is not fair. I do absolutely agree that coverage is an issue. I also agree that you need way more fixtures then the manufacturers recommend. I have three fixtures over my tank where the manufacturer would have recommended two and I feel I would probably benefit from an additional fixture.
Anyway I thought I would share my experience. I do believe that for the SPS purist that halide or T5 or a combination thereof is the safest and most reliable way to go. That's not to say that LEDs can't and won't work. So far I'm satisfied with the results I'm seeing and will probably stick it out for another year. We'll see how things play out.
I started the hobby with LEDs in a little nano. That tank was awesome and grew easy SPS with ease and acros grew okay but the color was questionable. That may very well have been due to my inexperience and or the very small volume of water causing fluctuations.
I bought my Radion pros before I had a chance to try any other lighting system since I had what I thought was good success with my LED lit nano. My build got delayed and due to overgrowth in my nano and making way for my larger tank I transferred all my stock into a 30 gallon tank. I decided to try an experiment and give it the old college try and listen to my elders and threw a 250 Radium over that tank. I feel like growth was better in that tank and colors were absolutely better in that tank but I'm not sure if that was due to me being more experienced or the doubling of the volume of water or just my corals getting larger and expressing better colors as mini colonies compared to frags.
Now that I have my larger tank up and those corals under the Radion LEDs I can't really say I've seen a big difference in growth. I do think the color was slightly better under the halide but then again my tank is still young. But by no means what I consider what I've seen under my Radions poor color.
I do think that the OP was a little out of line and I can sort of understand some of the frustration but discounting LEDs is not fair. I do absolutely agree that coverage is an issue. I also agree that you need way more fixtures then the manufacturers recommend. I have three fixtures over my tank where the manufacturer would have recommended two and I feel I would probably benefit from an additional fixture.
Anyway I thought I would share my experience. I do believe that for the SPS purist that halide or T5 or a combination thereof is the safest and most reliable way to go. That's not to say that LEDs can't and won't work. So far I'm satisfied with the results I'm seeing and will probably stick it out for another year. We'll see how things play out.
domination2580
New member
Sounds like you didn't have enough lighting....not the leds fault
rovster
New member
Oh, and by the way, someone needs to really define "exploding with growth" and "growing like weeds". These terms get thrown around way too much. I have personally never witnessed this phenomenon under LED or halide. I have however seen growth spurt's but it's after the coral is settled and has been in a stable aquarium for sometime. Let's face it small frag take a long time to grow and color up. Let's not fall in the trap of comparing a new tank with new LEDs and new tiny frag's to what a mini colony does in an established aquarium with halides, lol.
swhobbie1
New member
I've used MH, T5HO, and current LED (Hydra 52/26) and personally I like the LED the best. Corals are growing, have decent colors, I'd say the 52/26 performs better than the MH and T5HO did. Probably more factors that just lighting contributing to growth and color. I wouldn't go back to MH or T5 at this point and no heat problem requiring fans to blow across the tank or high elect bills anymore.
madweazl
Member
You're associating a three day power outage and subsequent crash to LEDs?
Moser
Active member
Not a dig, but Im sure the worst tank would luminescent as good as yours does under that lighting profile. Id like to see this tank under bright MH's.
Whilst not the best aquarium in the world LED's work for me (Hydra 52's) .
Despite the fact that i have no problem with LED's the other issue that needs discussing is that MH/T5 although still great light sources have a bit of a finite life span now so like it or lump it we have to move forward.
My tank under 52's
Lol- you just can't win with some people!
What do you expect to see???
Mo
saltyair
New member
Like others have said leds can be challenging because they are fully programmable unlike mh and t5.
Once they are dialed in they are amazing, and grow lps, sps and softies. Led is the future not only in complete lighting but also due to programmable options.
The op should have worded the title differently so that new people don't throw in the towel because they are having to figure out their settings.
Once they are dialed in they are amazing, and grow lps, sps and softies. Led is the future not only in complete lighting but also due to programmable options.
The op should have worded the title differently so that new people don't throw in the towel because they are having to figure out their settings.
reef bloke
Member
I've had great success with PC, MH, T5, and LED over the last 10 years. At this point I'm sticking with LED because it gets me the growth/colors I like while saving me money on power bills and maintenance. Each person has their own experiences, and for me LED has proven the best compromise of cost/performance.
dkeller_nc
New member
While I think the OP's original title might've been a bit of hyperbole, I tend to agree with the thought that LED fixtures shouldn't be recommended to beginners. I spend a fair amount of time in the newbie section trying to help out, and I will almost universally recommend a 4, 6 or 8 bulb T5HO fixture over the LED fixtures that beginners are interested in.
There's a couple of reasons. The first is that while I do think you can do OK with a highly capable LED fixture like the Radion or Hydra 52s, I'm rather doubtful of the inexpensive LED fixtures that are proffered because of a lot of them either lack UV & Violet altogether, or offer no control of the mixture of these two frequency ranges from the >420 nm blue/royal blue/deep blue diodes. And the older "major manufacturer" LED fixtures such as the Sol, Vega & Radion gen 2 fixtures just don't cut it because of the lack of the sub 420nm frequencies.
The second reason is hot-spotting and coverage; for a beginner, installing a T5HO or MH and running it is pretty darn fool-proof, and allows them to concentrate on the learning curve of water chemistry maintenance, nutrient export, and animal husbandry that are all critical to a successful tank. But you get all of the latter correct and still have major problems with nuking corals under the hot-spot of modular LED fixtures, while potentially light-starving corals that are placed elsewhere in the tank. And recommending that a beginner fork over the dough to install 3 Hydra52s or Radion G3 Pros over a 4-foot long tank to ensure sufficient, even lighting is usually going to result in sticker shock.
When the diodes and electronics become inexpensive enough that reputable manufacturers can offer full-spectrum, full-coverage linear fixtures that have a large number of dense-pack LED chips or at least 6 pucks in a 4' long fixture for <$800, I'll change my recommendation, but until then, I'd universally tell a newbie to stay away from LED lighting.
So in that sense (setting beginners up for the best chance of success possible), I'd agree with the OP - T5HOs, MH or the combination is the way to go.
There's a couple of reasons. The first is that while I do think you can do OK with a highly capable LED fixture like the Radion or Hydra 52s, I'm rather doubtful of the inexpensive LED fixtures that are proffered because of a lot of them either lack UV & Violet altogether, or offer no control of the mixture of these two frequency ranges from the >420 nm blue/royal blue/deep blue diodes. And the older "major manufacturer" LED fixtures such as the Sol, Vega & Radion gen 2 fixtures just don't cut it because of the lack of the sub 420nm frequencies.
The second reason is hot-spotting and coverage; for a beginner, installing a T5HO or MH and running it is pretty darn fool-proof, and allows them to concentrate on the learning curve of water chemistry maintenance, nutrient export, and animal husbandry that are all critical to a successful tank. But you get all of the latter correct and still have major problems with nuking corals under the hot-spot of modular LED fixtures, while potentially light-starving corals that are placed elsewhere in the tank. And recommending that a beginner fork over the dough to install 3 Hydra52s or Radion G3 Pros over a 4-foot long tank to ensure sufficient, even lighting is usually going to result in sticker shock.
When the diodes and electronics become inexpensive enough that reputable manufacturers can offer full-spectrum, full-coverage linear fixtures that have a large number of dense-pack LED chips or at least 6 pucks in a 4' long fixture for <$800, I'll change my recommendation, but until then, I'd universally tell a newbie to stay away from LED lighting.
So in that sense (setting beginners up for the best chance of success possible), I'd agree with the OP - T5HOs, MH or the combination is the way to go.
muttley101
Never go full retard!
Nice elaboration!
Denadai
New member
definitely not
I generally don't engage in these threads, but would like to voice my opinion here.
Those that think leds will become cheaper please keep dreaming. Look at cell phone, computers, TV's,ect... every year they come out with new tech and features and price stays the same or goes up. You are forced to keep upgrading everything to stay up to date, at some point I think if let go long enough you wouldn't be able to use your stuff as it wouldn't connect to the internet, watch tv, make calls, text or whatever as they won't update your equipment. This will carry over to leds as everything get updates now.
I run a halide setup, I could buy new top of the line stuff and pay for bulbs for at least 4 yrs and come close to what it would cost to light a smaller space, have the same equipment problems, ballasts going, out leds replacements. I don't see how I would save all this money I hear so many telling everyone you will save so much money buy switching to leds. Yes it will cost me a couple bucks extra a month to run and I might see some added heat because of it, which I don't mind. Much less than other stuff just to maintain my reef, just not worth it to me.
Most I read recommending them never tell you which fixture they are running and how long or anything. I have gone and looked at some of these peoples build threads not anything special, there are some tanks that do show good colors and growth, but very few do. Most have the run of the mill starter acro, montis, ect.
If they are going to continue releasing new models every year where is the time being spent doing the r&d. They put it out you buy and test , something's not right there. You are missing chunks of the lighting spectrum in leds with all the color leds. I think they have a long way to go before I give them any of my money to be a guanine pig. Buy the time you get to fiddle with them a little and dial them in you need to start looking at the new years tech and decide which you want to try now.
There is so few thing made to last more than 2-4 yrs now days its ridiculous. Buy new tech throw out the old. I think the op's tittle is and isn't the best tittle, but if you think about all the stuff being thrown away every year to make room for new tech just stipid. You may want to keep an eye on landfills than worrying about if you will be able to get corals and fish for your tank. end rant.
Those that think leds will become cheaper please keep dreaming. Look at cell phone, computers, TV's,ect... every year they come out with new tech and features and price stays the same or goes up. You are forced to keep upgrading everything to stay up to date, at some point I think if let go long enough you wouldn't be able to use your stuff as it wouldn't connect to the internet, watch tv, make calls, text or whatever as they won't update your equipment. This will carry over to leds as everything get updates now.
I run a halide setup, I could buy new top of the line stuff and pay for bulbs for at least 4 yrs and come close to what it would cost to light a smaller space, have the same equipment problems, ballasts going, out leds replacements. I don't see how I would save all this money I hear so many telling everyone you will save so much money buy switching to leds. Yes it will cost me a couple bucks extra a month to run and I might see some added heat because of it, which I don't mind. Much less than other stuff just to maintain my reef, just not worth it to me.
Most I read recommending them never tell you which fixture they are running and how long or anything. I have gone and looked at some of these peoples build threads not anything special, there are some tanks that do show good colors and growth, but very few do. Most have the run of the mill starter acro, montis, ect.
If they are going to continue releasing new models every year where is the time being spent doing the r&d. They put it out you buy and test , something's not right there. You are missing chunks of the lighting spectrum in leds with all the color leds. I think they have a long way to go before I give them any of my money to be a guanine pig. Buy the time you get to fiddle with them a little and dial them in you need to start looking at the new years tech and decide which you want to try now.
There is so few thing made to last more than 2-4 yrs now days its ridiculous. Buy new tech throw out the old. I think the op's tittle is and isn't the best tittle, but if you think about all the stuff being thrown away every year to make room for new tech just stipid. You may want to keep an eye on landfills than worrying about if you will be able to get corals and fish for your tank. end rant.
muttley101
Never go full retard!
Dating myself, some of these kids won't get it...
