JammyBirch
Aquaria Engineering
You can keep waiting too...or you could find the build thread. Why would i at this point post any pics so you can bad mouth them...you're too funny.
The pictures you posted are of your tank? Nothing special...
LED's are bad for our Hobby
- Thread starter b7fig
- Start date
You can keep waiting too...or you could find the build thread. Why would i at this point post any pics so you can bad mouth them...you're too funny.
The pictures you posted are of your tank? Nothing special...
JammyBirch
Aquaria Engineering
This is uncalled for, i apologize. You know it doesn't matter to me what anyone is running on there tank. I'll learn from what i'm doing and talking to others in similar situations. As a community i think this is the best forum i've ever been a part of and blasting on someones hard work is not right, it's not my style either.
Panta rhei
New member
[emoji23]
cleverbs
New member
Heres what I am going to do, on friday I am getting my MH/t5ho fixture for my 220g tank its a 3 250w 4 80w t5ho with M80 ballast running Radiums. Over my frag tank I currently have an AI Hydra. the display and frag tank share the same water. So I will put 2 frags of the same sps in the same par in the frag tank and the display and I will record growth. Then we will all be able to see what is better
Lights
Lights
Nice. I'm looking forward to seeing the results in the future.
Thank you.
Lights
Nice. I'm looking forward to seeing the results in the future.
Thank you.
Perth_reefer
Member
Unfortunately, and although you have the best will in the world doing this, the results will be kind of irrelevant. If your MH/T5 combo gives better results, all you're actually proving is that your particular MH/T5 setup is better than the Hydra on your system. It's not conclusive proof that MH is better than LED because you haven't sampled every LED unit out there. The same way as if I get better growth/colour from the best LED unit out there over a cheap low power MH unit, it doesn't prove that all LEDs are better than MH.
cleverbs
New member
alright never mind then. lol
powderbluetangy
New member
The #1 problem with LEDS are not the LEDs, it is 100% operator error in my opinion.
The main problem is people driving the intensity of the LEDS too high because they dont have enough of the fixtures to cover their tank. $750 radions are just a huge ripoff imo. i would never buy one... you could buy 3 + of the "cheaper" Chinese fixtures for the same amount.
rules for LED SPS tanks:
1. LEDs need to be placed higher
2. More fixtures per tank
3. driving each unit at no more than 40-50%
even with 120 optics, the lights are still very focused, you'll get lots of hot spots and dead spots. by placing them higher and closer together at a lesser intensity, you eliminate all of those problems. read: if you have 2 led fixtures, you probably need 4!
The main problem is people driving the intensity of the LEDS too high because they dont have enough of the fixtures to cover their tank. $750 radions are just a huge ripoff imo. i would never buy one... you could buy 3 + of the "cheaper" Chinese fixtures for the same amount.
rules for LED SPS tanks:
1. LEDs need to be placed higher
2. More fixtures per tank
3. driving each unit at no more than 40-50%
even with 120 optics, the lights are still very focused, you'll get lots of hot spots and dead spots. by placing them higher and closer together at a lesser intensity, you eliminate all of those problems. read: if you have 2 led fixtures, you probably need 4!
JB NY
Active member
I find it interesting that Radiums have become the standard for growth for LED to strive for, such a poor grower the Radium MH lamp is. Not knocking the test or your setup, just an observation about the LED debate in general.
Wazzel
New member
I do not agree with 1 or 3 and 2 is a "it depends". There is really not hard rules with LEDs. I run mine at 94% and about 8" above my water line. So far so good.
cleverbs
New member
How is this? Everything I have ever read/heard says radiums have the best growth for MH
Wazzel
New member
Nope, lower K lamps have better growth. People tend to like the look of the radium so slightly slower grown is not that big a deal.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
I don't think it's operator error so much as mis-led operators, but I agree with you on pretty much every thing else. When we look at a tank with a "cluster" style LED over it, our eye sees the light spread as much more even than it is. When you look at par graphs for the Radion for example, it looks more like a spotlight than it looks to the eye. If you could see the par in the tank the same way, you would see intense spots under each fixture.
If you want to use that style light, you need to get the more intense area of par to be very close to the next fixture and then the overall spread will be more even.
I am convinced that the eventual LED standard will be a large panel with an even spread of emitters. Pretty much every successful SPS reef I've seen that use LEDs either use:
1) The panel style like the chinese fixtures and stuff the top of the tank with them
2) The LANI or Sicce style fixtures that just cover a large part of the tank area with a blanket of lens-less emitters.
3) The cluster style fixtures but stuff them close together so that they end up acting more like the panels anyway.
I've seen more successful SPS reefs with blue and white led fixtures that conform to the above types than any cluster or full spectrum LEDs.
Notice this month's tank of the month. It uses 13 AI sol Blue fixtures. Blue and white only. Notice in the video that there is little to no shimmer? That is because there are so many sources of light overlapping that they cancel it out. T5s do the same thing. When you have enough LEDs and your spread is even, you will lose a lot of the shimmer - to me that is fine, but a lot of people here list the shimmer as a prime reason for loving LEDs.
Strong shimmer is bad - it means your light source is too concentrated in a few spots.
So if you are doing it correctly, you need a lot of LED emitters. That then begs the question- If you need a ton of emitters and the cost to purchase is astronomical and the electrical use is close to that of traditional lights, what is left to drive you to purchase LED? If that decision was on the table in front of the customer with all facts in hand I think a lot less people would choose LED, at least until prices come down.
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Mael
New member
went from T5 to chinese LED around a year ago and have never regretted it. Like others I have seen TOTM and many other epic tanks that have used all different lighting so they all can work fine for growth and color as long as you know what your doing. Well over half the issues people had with coral and LED were due to starting or increasing intensity too rapidly. I am still at ~40% white chanel and 80-85% blue channel for a nice 16k ish look. Great growth in everything from zoa/shrooms to the new tierra del fuego and other random SPS i got recently, 2 weeks in tank and most of them are encrusting their plugs/rocks.
One thing I noticed lately is 80-90% of the local fish stores run pure LED over their coral/stock tanks. T5 on the fish holding tanks but anything with coral in it including the QT tanks run LED and they seem to have great growth and color. Not sure if it is the growth/color driving this change or the reduced power/bulb costs associated with running 10-20 lighting units in a store.
If one method works for you great, just dont bash other people because they dont agree with your opinion or the product you use.
Im actually upgrading my black box chinese LEDS to Programmable chinese fixtures this month, 1 cord, sunrise/sunset/3channels lcd touch panel programming for under 250....win.
One thing I noticed lately is 80-90% of the local fish stores run pure LED over their coral/stock tanks. T5 on the fish holding tanks but anything with coral in it including the QT tanks run LED and they seem to have great growth and color. Not sure if it is the growth/color driving this change or the reduced power/bulb costs associated with running 10-20 lighting units in a store.
If one method works for you great, just dont bash other people because they dont agree with your opinion or the product you use.
Im actually upgrading my black box chinese LEDS to Programmable chinese fixtures this month, 1 cord, sunrise/sunset/3channels lcd touch panel programming for under 250....win.
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cleverbs
New member
My thought is that they are running LED's over coral tanks in order to bring out as much color of their frags as they can. I know that my LFS runs radions over their coral tanks and they look terrible all the time however in their Coral QT and the area that they will look after coral for people while they set up new tanks or move tanks they run MH and the coral in that area looks fantastic. I am sure this is because they run 2 radions about 2+ feet off the water of the coral tanks and the tanks are 48x48x16
JB NY
Active member
Great for color, poor for growth. Still grows pretty good though, but put a 10k bulb over the tank, oh my will you have some increased growth.
I am not a veteran in the saltwater tank arena but I have my tanks with LEDS,,Mainly zoas and palys..They are doing good for the most part but never seen any real growth ever,,pretty much just surviving..I feed them every other day and compulsive about testing and water quality husbandry.
Recently I borrowed a T5 hO fixture from a friend who was not using it,,its been only 2.5 weeks with this T5 on one tank and already seeing better results..Hopefully some growth too to come..Still too soon the justify any real conclusions but seems positive with this light switch.
I read plenty of LED tank problems due to one issue or another,,Ill try this to see if this change will work with my tank..
I am in the process of try to find a good T5 ho light for my new tank Im adding to my system,,Ill go the T5 HO route before wasting more money on LEDS...
Recently I borrowed a T5 hO fixture from a friend who was not using it,,its been only 2.5 weeks with this T5 on one tank and already seeing better results..Hopefully some growth too to come..Still too soon the justify any real conclusions but seems positive with this light switch.
I read plenty of LED tank problems due to one issue or another,,Ill try this to see if this change will work with my tank..
I am in the process of try to find a good T5 ho light for my new tank Im adding to my system,,Ill go the T5 HO route before wasting more money on LEDS...
