LED's are bad for our Hobby

Perth_reefer · Mar 5, 2015

tinkerman said:
There has been talk about placing bans on importing animals for the hobby and don't think leds are helping if people are killing corals to figure out proper setting on their leds. Yes they may kill corals regardless of leds but would think less would be killed if leds was already figured out.

So you're saying a ban on importing of corals is the direct responsibility of LED users in home aquariums....not because of collecting methods, environmental awareness or species becoming more endangered??!

That is a very very big statement to make!

Perth_reefer · Mar 5, 2015

redwhiteandblue said:
I don't need to read the whole thread.....

I consider the led tanks to be the pioneers of a new generation of reef keeping
halide started somewhere, t5 started somewhere, leds are getting started.......

A newbie buying an led is not any worse for the hobby than the idiot buying a 10 gal, bag of salt and a nemo. And that guy didn't waste any serious cash on an led, yet still kills the fish, and gets out of the hobby.

Snake oils, foods, supplements, and all the other bs gets a free pass from us, so why hate on leds. If you don't like them, cool. You don't have to buy them. But leds/ manufacturers are growing, I don't see how this is a bad thing for our hobby. new products don't come out when there is no interest.

At least I can say I was an early adopter of a technology that helped improved the hobby we all love.

What's bad for our hobby is people not being open to new ideas.

+1, and you know that.....

[/url]54586422 by kenpau01, on Flickr[/IMG]

tinkerman · Mar 5, 2015

Wow this is what a person gets for posting their opinion.

kenpau Why are you yelling I thought that is a big non no on forums?

The straw that broke the camels back ever heard that saying.

Keep throwing money out the window and filling the landfills.

I see why people don't visit RC.

Perth_reefer · Mar 5, 2015

tinkerman said:
Wow this is what a person gets for posting their opinion.

kenpau Why are you yelling I thought that is a big non no on forums?

The straw that broke the camels back ever heard that saying.

Keep throwing money out the window and filling the landfills.

I see why people don't visit RC.

Far out, I thought this was a forum for mature people, not 'oh you're font is too big, stop yelling at me'! I posted and that was the font that came out!

With regards to your opinion, I was just wondering what basis you have for thinking that a ban on importing is directly linked to LED users at home??

Hopefully you can read this....don't want to 'shout' at you!!

joshky · Mar 5, 2015

tinkerman said:
I see why people don't visit RC.

Hmm. I like RC because I think it has some of the smartest members and I like to be surrounded by knowledge so I can further progress in this hobby.

Sorry you don't see it that way.

billyzbear · Mar 5, 2015

This thread turnned ugly...

redwhiteandblue · Mar 5, 2015

When your target a group with a heavy opinion, what do you expect to happen? I would expect a heavy opinion in return.

Perth_reefer · Mar 5, 2015

billyzbear said:
This thread turnned ugly...

This thread turned ugly from the first post. The title of the thread on its own is enough to provoke a reaction. There are a lot of reefkeepers on here who have invested significant time and money buying LED lights and setting them up to create the most natural environment possible for their fish and coral....then someone comes along with a thread announcing that they're doing it wrong and ruining the hobby...what did people really expect??
I use Hydra52 lighting and am getting fantastic growth and colours, however I won't sit here and proclaim that MH/T5 lighting doesn't work, because that isn't true, it does work very well. Would I change back to MH/T5.....no, purely because I'm very pleased with my LED results (not the same for everyone), and I like the way I can control the lighting to make it more natural. My favourite time of the day is the hour before moonlighting, my lights are on sunset, my MP40s are ramped down, it's a very peaceful time in my tank...I just couldn't achieve that with MH/T5s.

Wazzel · Mar 5, 2015

It is not uncommon for manufactures to think their product will work one way and hobbyists to figure out a better way. When T-5 came out manufactures had great power savings claims and small number of tube requirements. It did not take long for hobbyist to figure out we needed more than 4 tube, the tubes needed reflectors and the run time needed to be longer.

power boat jim · Mar 5, 2015

1MP3R1AL · Mar 5, 2015

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125075&highlight=mh+burning+corals

Sorry, I find this example far from a debate, or problem.

power boat jim · Mar 5, 2015

1MP3R1AL said:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125075&highlight=mh+burning+corals

Sorry, I find this example far from a debate, or problem.

No need to apologize,I forgot to add the disclaimer in my last post. This was not a scientific research project and the the evidence brought forth is strictly the opinion of the poster.There was no clear cut definition outlined or parameters stated of what a problem or debate would include. Anyone can decide for themself what that should be.

It was simply ment to illustrate the point that lighting debates have been going on in various forms for at least a decade and given that, the hobby will probably survive the use of LEDs. Again just my opinion.

Bilk · Mar 5, 2015

I think PBJ made a good point with his examples. Corals are subject to stresses from any light source if done incorrectly. It's evident people have over-lit and under-lit tanks with fluorescent and incandescent sources and they've lost corals from doing such. It wasn't the end of the world. It took trial and error for a few years to get it right after FL and MH came on the scene. Heck, I remember people using high pressure sodium and regular halogen bulbs, in an attempt to get more intense lighting. This was well before the industry saw lighting as a new revenue stream. There were really no lighting specific mfgs. that I can remember. Now there are companies that just specialize in aquatic lighting.

LEDs can and do grow and color up corals. I have them over my tank and see corals growing and coloring. Can it be better? Maybe. I just installed two 250w raduims to supplement as a test. Maybe I need more LEDs or maybe I will just switch back to T5 with MH.

Unless some entity decides there's reason enough to establish base guidelines for operation, etc, then it's up to us thru trial and error, to make the best of their use. Maybe they aren't a single source light just as many have decided that T5 and MH aren't. People have combinations of those so why not combining LED with them as some mfgs. have already done.

Paul B · Mar 5, 2015

Jim, I see that when it is winter and your boat isn't in the water you have unlimited time to look up these threads.

I stopped paying attention to this thread a long time ago. I use LEDs and really don't care at all what anyone thinks of them. I am also bald and don't care about that. I only care that it stops snowing and gets warm so I can once again get my boat in the water. A boat by the way that is outfitted with all LEDs (that I built) :beer:

I just took this picture of my house.

power boat jim · Mar 5, 2015

Paul B said:
Jim, I see that when it is winter and your boat isn't in the water you have unlimited time to look up these threads.
I stopped paying attention to this thread a long time ago. I use LEDs and really don't care at all what anyone thinks of them. I am also bald and don't care about that. I only care that it stops snowing and gets warm so I can once again get my boat in the water. A boat by the way that is outfitted with all LEDs (that I built) :beer:

I just took this picture of my house.

Yes Paul you caught me I am ready to get out. Just bought a years worth of fuel yesterday. My boat too has all led lights. Have your colors faded any since installing yours? I cant see the pic of your house here its blocked by our filter.

Bilk · Mar 5, 2015

Paul B said:
Jim, I see that when it is winter and your boat isn't in the water you have unlimited time to look up these threads.
I stopped paying attention to this thread a long time ago. I use LEDs and really don't care at all what anyone thinks of them. I am also bald and don't care about that. I only care that it stops snowing and gets warm so I can once again get my boat in the water. A boat by the way that is outfitted with all LEDs (that I built) :beer:

I just took this picture of my house.

Paul, don't you know that bald is in? Just ask Pitbull. If you don't know who that is, well you're showing your age LOL :rollface:

Yeah I think this thread in some sense is silly. It's obvious people can achieve some pretty impressive reefs with LED, so to make any sort of statement to the contrary, isn't reality. However, I think threads like this do perform some degee service as ideas are explored, discussed and successes are exhibited, where others can start to draw some conclusions as to how to go about emulating those successes. Maybe some mfgs. listen in and see there's a need to better explain how their products could be best utilized, though maybe that's being too optimistic

Oh nice house, from what I can see of it LOL Hope this disaster of a winter is soon over. No boat here, but I do like the beach

Paul B · Mar 5, 2015

It is difficult to determine health of corals with different lighting because of a couple of factors. First of all a lot of people are very good with "enhancing" colors with photoshop. No one here of course and not me because I don't even know how to do that. That picture above is my house just as it came out of my camera phone. I probably could have enhanced it so It looked like I took that picture in Tahiti, but I didn't think I could get away with it. Another aspect of determining lighting quality is the age of the corals themselves. Most pictures are frags on those silly little plugs. To me, that means the thing was just bought this year and that means nothing. Take a picture in ten years with no enhancing and see what it looks like and if it is still living. I have plenty of old corals that I consider healthy. Most are not very colorful because I just didn't buy colorful corals. Colors mean nothing to me as I am more interested in health (and having all my fish spawn) Virtually anyone can throw money at this hobby and come out with a beautiful, colorful tank. If it is 3 or 4 years old, that doesn't mean much as even a whale shark would probably live in a tank for that short of time. Corals don't come with a time stamp so we have no idea how old they are from the pictures. It's like when people say something like "My fish are very healthy and they have always been fed flake food" Then you see the guy started the tank last Tuesday. Or my DSBs has lasted forever, then you find out that forever is 3 years. Just my unbiased opinion of course. :lol2:

Crusty, I built those LEDs for my boat. I broke the bulbs, removed the filiments and glass and soldered in LEDs. Now they sell those bulbs but they didn't then. They are also expensive and I can make them for about a buck.

1MP3R1AL · Mar 5, 2015

I'm guessing this is what a MH/T5 owner's actually see:

And this is what LED owners see:

Just joking, bored, had to go there. This snow really is coming down!

Scorpius · Mar 5, 2015

You forgot the volley ball net. Power lines don't count. I can tell it's photo shopped. :lol:

VegasMike · Mar 5, 2015

Since we are, thankfully, getting a bit off track here, what type of boats do you guys play with?

My Chaparral is in storage for a few weeks longer.

LED's are bad for our Hobby

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