LED's vs T5? Noob has questions (Go Figure)

[mmoore644]

Hi all. I'm Matt. I'm brand new to RC and am approx 2 months away from getting started with my 1st ever aquarium. After years of interest and months of research I decided to save up some money and purchase an entire new set up all at once (tank, pump, protein skimmer, lights etc..) My main question is on the lights. I plan on starting slow with some live rock and fish and slowly add some softies. I hope to eventually be able to even get 2 or 3 sps in there. Since I have the advantage of starting from scratch can any one please make suggestions as far as the lights are concerned. From what I read the T-5's would do a really good job with all the corals; however, I'm really interested in the LED's and would much rather get them now then have to upgrade in a few years. I live in South Florida where it's usually pretty warm to really hot, so I'm trying to do what I can to avoid requiring a chiller. Are there reasonably priced LED light set-ups for a standard 55 gallon tank that will help corals thrive and is the technology good enough to date? Or is my best bet with the T5's? Also, i am def not the DIY kind of guy when it comes to electric appliances that will be hanging over 55 gallons of water, so I'd be more interested in pre-assembled LED lights.

Thank you all in advance for your forthcoming help, suggestions, opinions, experiences & war stories

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

this is how I loom at your choices...
where you live you definitely want to stay away from the mh that cause a lot of heat.

the next best choices are t5s or led's.

t5s will definitely do the job of keeping things cool and growing sps corals.

now this next statement is going to be debated by many but I think led's are still unproven and there still too new to be certain that the price for led's are going to be beneficial in the long run. I may be completely wrong but as it stands now there's not enough evidence to recommend led's for long term sps growth.

 

[mjhall85]

Personally I would say go with a nice 4 or 6 bulb T5 fixture LED's are still very new sure there is quite a few reefers that have great results with them but the initial cost of them is quite high for now. I run a 4 bulb T5 fixture on my 65gallon and it has great growth and it doesnt affect the temp of my tank. Living in arizona its a thing to worry about cause it gets hot here too. The AI Sol Led's people have raved about and I have seen a few locals that have them and they work great but they are not that cheap. So basically it comes down to your budget what you want to spend

 

[fredg89]

I would say go with t5hos. The reason I say this is that leds are extremely overpriced right now. Leds don't really cost that much to be honest but because they're so new and most people want plug and play, they're expensive. Also you can make your own for cheaper and can buy your own leds but you need to know which ones to purchase which is the hard part.

 

[eledile]

I would go LED. Yeah they are going to be more expensive upfront, but when used properly will last for 50,000 hours! T5's need to be replaced yearly to maintain proper lighting for your corals...so lets do the math here..Just for grins and giggles lets say you run your T5's for 12 hours a day, every day of the year.. 12 x 365 is 4,380. So every 4,380 hours, you will have to replace the bulbs... 50,000 divided by 4,380 is 11.42

So, according to the math, the led's will last almost 11 and 1/2 times longer than your first set of T5's..And at ~$20 a bulb assuming you are using at least 4 T5 bulbs that's $80 a year in bulbs I would assume you could find a one time fee of around 350-400 for a complete LED kit for your tank. Maybe even cheaper, I just went with the higher of my thoughts. DIY would be even cheaper, so if you have a friend that's good with electronics, ask for their help! The extra $100 bucks you save there can go towards livestock or other supplies. Not only that, but LED's are much more efficient and run even cooler than T5's

Most people I have talked to have documented actual cases of not only growth, but better growth overall with LED's vs T5's. Several fish stores in my area are switching their entire lighting from T5 and MH to LED's. (One of them is close with Ecoxotic, and LED's are going to be HOT for a long time.) Yes, LED's are new to the aquarium world, but they have been around for a long time, and are a quality light for any application. LED's are going to do nothing but get even more expensive as time goes on, so it would honestly be better to get them now than later..


So, you have a lighting system that will last 11x longer, run cooler, and cost less to use than the T5's..Or you can go with the T5's. Which in reality are a very good method of lighting. And there's nothing in the books that says you can't supplement with T5's or even LED's! Try doing something half and half. 24" T5 fixture and a 24" LED fixture (one on each side of the middle divider), put the same coral under each style of lighting, and watch for yourself to see what you like better.

To me, getting something that will last me 11 years rather than replacing every year is much more beneficial. Not to mention the money you save can go to other needed supplies for the tank, livestock, or even emergency items like a circulation pump that goes bad, or an impeller for your return pump, or that extra bag of salt that you thought you had but apparently don't when you do a water change...

The choice is ultimately yours, and whichever you choose is going to be the right one for you. Just as something to keep in mind when you are looking around, for my 30g tank, for everything LED, I'm only spending $200 tops. I think most 24" T5HO fixtures go for that each..

 

[larrypoe]

lighting is one of my huge questions too.....I have NO exp with them, half of my freshwater setups never even had them.........and anything i will be setting up for saltwater will be freshwater setups I already have.....and theres a BUNCH :/.....from 125g down to 29g :/........I do have a friend who builds hunting lights and has a ton of exp w leds...he imports them by the truckload...i used to test his hunting lights for him ...(Moonshiner Lights) he would build me about anything i wanted custom at a cost of pretty much the lights and wiring ect.....any ideas of what a custom "wish" setup should be for a 125-150g setup???? ie how many, color specs, fixed/adjustable, seperate switches..........this would be the main display tank w corals ect.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I personally would like to see hard fact that Leds will last 11 years. they haven't been in the reef scene for more than 3 years. 11 years is hard to claim. I would say that the actual diode will not even illuminate for 11, semiconductors are a enemy to the slightest heat and because of that you will start yo see break down of the anode and cathode which will eventually start to burn these led's out, depending on the way it wired in the circuit it will wipe out and entire string of led's.

when it comes down to claims, I suspect that in the next year or so we will start to see a shift in peoples thinking about led's. corals will stop growing, colors will start to fade, promotion of algae growth will start, complaints that the replacement of new led's are going to cost too much and people will go back o what they used to use.

if, it is to stay in our hobby, the price of led's will have to go down, so I even speculate that we will see a huge drop in prices for led's here soon. That's the only way we will see led's stay in this hobby.

Personally I like the idea of led's but right now I'm reluctant to jump on the band wagon and support those outrageous claims. when things start yo drop in price I may change my thinking until then, I'll stick with T5's.

 

[James77]

I personally would like to see hard fact that Leds will last 11 years. they haven't been in the reef scene for more than 3 years. 11 years is hard to claim. I would say that the actual diode will not even illuminate for 11, semiconductors are a enemy to the slightest heat and because of that you will start yo see break down of the anode and cathode which will eventually start to burn these led's out, depending on the way it wired in the circuit it will wipe out and entire string of led's.

The 11 years is in the most optimal conditions possible. Somehow I doubt that is going to be what is present about a warm saltwater tank. Most of the fixtures built have a one year warranty, and with new LED systems coming out so fast, replacement parts will be difficult to get as these current fixtures approach the alleged 10 year lifespan. We will see over the next several years how they truly pan out long term for our hobby, i am pretty skeptcial of the calims made.
T5s went through a similar craze 4-5 years ago, as they were then the end all and be all of reef lighting. Some fixtures were on backorder for months.The 2 year bulb life turned out to be more like 10-12 months under even the optimum cooling.

T5 or LED? I'd be a little torn, as the T5s have been proven, and are very simple to DIY replacement fixes. They lack shimmer, which I like from halides and LEDs provide. But I'd be cautious about basing an LED purchase completely on the claims that are made with bulb life. See them in person, they tend to appear dimmer than other lighting like halides and T5s, and the look is not for everyone. I dumped LEDs and went back to halides and could not be happier.

T5s will not need a chiller, most halide setups do not even need one assuming thought out canopy and fans. I have never needed a chiller even in the summer in the over 8 years I have used them. There will not be a "need" to upgrade, all the lighting present in the hobby today will still be here for a very long time. Time will tell if LEDs keep the promises they make. The good news, with the LED craze going on tight now, it is a great time to pick up used halide and T5 setups

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

The good news, with the LED craze going on tight now, it is a great time to pick up used halide and T5 setups

that's true, I have seen prices for mh drop dramatically in the last 6 months.

 

[eledile]

I personally would like to see hard fact that Leds will last 11 years. they haven't been in the reef scene for more than 3 years. 11 years is hard to claim. I would say that the actual diode will not even illuminate for 11, semiconductors are a enemy to the slightest heat and because of that you will start yo see break down of the anode and cathode which will eventually start to burn these led's out, depending on the way it wired in the circuit it will wipe out and entire string of led's.

Speak with the people from ecoxotic, ask them why they are switching every tank they have to LED. A lot of the LED companies out there are actually not even related to aquarium use. They are from the hydroponic world. Ecoxotic IS the sister company to Current, which both have been dedicated to the Aquarium world for many years. If they are switching, there has to be some reason for that other than "It's the newest, hottest craze right now!" You really think someone with as much time and money invested in this hobby, (and for them it's their source of income) would just do something without thinking the consequences through??

And an LED is an LED. Doesn't matter the company that produces them. I have been around LED's for many years, they are a quality light and if they weren't then I doubt someone would have even thought of putting them on a fish tank..They are built to be brighter, more efficient, and last longer than a traditional light. Plain and simple. You want proof of them lasting, as a company that produces them. Ecoxotic (I will have to double check to confirm) guarantees their LED modules at 50,000 hours. If used correctly that is. But it's not hard to use them correctly.



Personally I like the idea of led's but right now I'm reluctant to jump on the band wagon and support those outrageous claims. when things start yo drop in price I may change my thinking until then, I'll stick with T5's.

Led's are cheap. It is the drivers, dimmers, and accessories that cost lots of money..

See them in person, they tend to appear dimmer than other lighting like halides and T5s, and the look is not for everyone. I dumped LEDs and went back to halides and could not be happier.

LED's dimmer than T5's?? These were probably not LED's then. Or perhaps what you saw was them being dimmed for night time lighting. That's the beauty of LED's. They can be dimmed to simulate sunrise, sunset, daytime, night time, etc..Also, no one runs their LED's at 100% power. They would kill their corals. Most don't use power levels above 70%! This is what makes them last longer!! Even at 40% power they are brighter and still more efficient than a T5..


There will always be something bigger and better coming out. It's the cycle of life. Next we will probably see someone who has bottled up sunlight and claims they use it to light their reef tanks..You just have to know the product in use. I know LED's. They are GREAT! When used properly they are very long lasting, efficient, etc.. I built one when I was 12 that lasted for 5 years...:eek1: And that was when I didn't really care about anything other than just building it as fast as possible so I could go play video games..

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

guaranteeing a led to illuminate and having a led perform the same as it did the day you bought it are 2 separate things.
I'm not interests in asking any store why they changed over to complete led's on all their tanks. if I were to probe long enough I would be able to gather that they were probably told what they wanted to hear by those that were selling the product. I've been taken by smooth talking salesman myself.

I will disagree that a diode is a diode, they are not all created the same. but when it comes to led's in an aquarium the reflectors are what makes or breaks the light penetration.

I'm not saying that led's won't last as long as what they claim in a salt water environment, what I'm saying is that you can't say with certainty that they will. simply nobody knows.

I have serious doubt that they will and believe that we will start to see that here in the near future. and at that point prices for the lights will have to go way down for them to be competitive in this hobby.

 

[James77]

LED's dimmer than T5's?? These were probably not LED's then. Or perhaps what you saw was them being dimmed for night time lighting. That's the beauty of LED's. They can be dimmed to simulate sunrise, sunset, daytime, night time, etc..Also, no one runs their LED's at 100% power. They would kill their corals. Most don't use power levels above 70%! This is what makes them last longer!! Even at 40% power they are brighter and still more efficient than a T5..

These were Cree LEDs and the LEDs used in AI Sol Units. I have seen all in person, including my own 78 3 watt Cree LED setup that I built. Worked perfectly, but halides still looked better. Better enough where I took a major hit selling the LEDs to get the halides back. Whether they were powered at 40% or 100% does not really matter, they still appear dimmer than halides or T5 fixtures I have owned. I saw the AI Sol at my LFS at 100%....DIM, at a reduced percentage it isa even dimmer. Mine were actually brighter than i thought they woulod be, but my halides are still brighter. Yes, dimming is a cool feature of LEDs, but totally unneeded as has been proved by the many many years of succesful coral keeping.

The long term savings of LEDs have yet to be seen. Using bulb replacement as a major savings, when how long these will actually last above a tank remains to be seen, is pretty silly. Maybe just being real pro-LED. Like justifying buying a setup. There will be long term costs as LEDs fail, drivers fail, circuitry fails....and what of when the replacement parts for these fixtures are obsolete and no longer made in 4 years?

 

[James77]

Ecoxotic (I will have to double check to confirm) guarantees their LED modules at 50,000 hours. If used correctly that is. But it's not hard to use them correctly.

I would love to see the link where a company will warranty their LED fixtures at 50,000 hours or for 5-10 years like they claim the LEDs will last. How these LEDs lifesapn will be effected by being above a humid, warm, salty tank has yet to be seen. The 50,000 hours are in very controlled setting.