Let me ask you this about quarantine

[CodeBlueMedic]

I've got a 10 gallon tank setup with heater and penguin HOB filter/biowheel. It is barebottom, no live rock, nothing. I'll add a few pieces of PVC or other smooth nice looking hiding spots (since it's in a display area). My first main tank is just starting it's first cycle. How crucial is it that my QT cycle before purchasing my first fish? My thought process was, I can pick up my first fish and place him in the QT, that way by the time my display is ready for him, he will have already gone through a quarantine process.

Or the alternative, which is to drop a shrimp in the QT and let it cycle like the main tank, then start a quarantine process with a new fish?

 

[wooden_reefer]

I've got a 10 gallon tank setup with heater and penguin HOB filter/biowheel. It is barebottom, no live rock, nothing. I'll add a few pieces of PVC or other smooth nice looking hiding spots (since it's in a display area). My first main tank is just starting it's first cycle. How crucial is it that my QT cycle before purchasing my first fish? My thought process was, I can pick up my first fish and place him in the QT, that way by the time my display is ready for him, he will have already gone through a quarantine process.

Or the alternative, which is to drop a shrimp in the QT and let it cycle like the main tank, then start a quarantine process with a new fish?

I always cycle the medium of filtration intended for QT very well before buying fish.

Cycling for QT is an extremely simple procedure.

Nitrification bacteria will survive many (but NOT all) drugs (or hyposalinity) that are needed to eradicate many dreaded diseases, including ick. This is why cycling for QT is essential. It will allow effortless and thorough QT, often.

 

[igot2gats]

If you're just setting up your QT, I would cycle it first. Since there's no biological filtration, you'll need a cycled QT, before you put a fish in.

 

[CodeBlueMedic]

Thanks for the replies. It's okay to cycle it with a raw shrimp, just like the display tank, right?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Thanks for the replies. It's okay to cycle it with a raw shrimp, just like the display tank, right?

It is better to think of cycling the medium intended for QT, not cycling the QT.

You can use a 5 gal buckle half-filled with a small power head to cycle the medium, and then toss the water later and keep the cycled medium.

A HOT power box filter is also a good way to cycle for QT. Bag the medium, put in bacteria seed and add half to a whole finely chopped smallest shrimp sold on supermarkets.

Cycling for QT is very simple; don't insist on making it hard.

 

[shesacharmer]

If you plan to spend a year buying fish for your tank then a cycled QT is probably easier. I won't be doing that so I use the temporary QT method which includes a HOB filter with floss only, a heater, a thermometer, an ammonia badge and pvc hiding places.

No cycling required. Just fill, check salinity, bring to temperature and you are ready to go. The ammonia badge will tell you when to change the water. Change the filter floss every day. Empty and clean everything, let dry for a day, and you are ready for your next fish. Easy peasy.

 

[CodeBlueMedic]

If you plan to spend a year buying fish for your tank then a cycled QT is probably easier. I won't be doing that so I use the temporary QT method which includes a HOB filter with floss only, a heater, a thermometer, an ammonia badge and pvc hiding places.

No cycling required. Just fill, check salinity, bring to temperature and you are ready to go. The ammonia badge will tell you when to change the water. Change the filter floss every day. Empty and clean everything, let dry for a day, and you are ready for your next fish. Easy peasy.

hmmmm I like that idea...Roughly how long are you quarantining and are you treating the fish with anything prophetically during this process?

 

[wooden_reefer]

If you plan to spend a year buying fish for your tank then a cycled QT is probably easier. I won't be doing that so I use the temporary QT method which includes a HOB filter with floss only, a heater, a thermometer, an ammonia badge and pvc hiding places.

No cycling required. Just fill, check salinity, bring to temperature and you are ready to go. The ammonia badge will tell you when to change the water. Change the filter floss every day. Empty and clean everything, let dry for a day, and you are ready for your next fish. Easy peasy.

For me, I always plan to buy all the fish at once and then do a very long and complete QT, 12 weeks plus often.

I always cycle the medium intended for QT well and in advance.

 

[wooden_reefer]

hmmmm I like that idea...Roughly how long are you quarantining and are you treating the fish with anything prophetically during this process?

There is a range of opinions.

Some say 6 weeks is enough to eradicate ich, but I often go twice as long.

I do not observe for ich; I treat decisively always with the aim of killing or allowing to die the very last ich organism, which is what eradication means.

 

[CodeBlueMedic]

There is a range of opinions.

Some say 6 weeks is enough to eradicate ich, but I often go twice as long.

I do not observe for ich; I treat decisively always with the aim of killing or allowing to die the very last ich organism, which is what eradication means.

Are you using the hyposalinity treatment or copper? I'm actually partial to the copper method, since it's a bare bones tank and nothing will ever transfer to my main tank (except for the actual fish). Then you don't have to mess with slowly acclimating them to a higher salinity.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Are you using the hyposalinity treatment or copper? I'm actually partial to the copper method, since it's a bare bones tank and nothing will ever transfer to my main tank (except for the actual fish). Then you don't have to mess with slowly acclimating them to a higher salinity.

I dose unchelated copper (straight CuSo4.5H2O) at rate of 0.25 ppm Cu ion. The rate of precipitation depends on the amount of calcerous material.

I have never had problem although with angels and butterflies one has to be quite careful in estimating the actual volume of the water.

 

[shesacharmer]

I use TTM for fish to eradicate Ich. I bought two large totes and disposable airstones, two heaters, two thermometers, and a variety of pvc pieces. I use the totes because they are so easy to clean. Since each setup is identical the fish hardly know the difference. After the 12 days of transfer I put them in the QT and observe for 2-3 days. Then after they are settled in I treat with Prazipro to eliminate any other type of parasites. They stay in the QT for a total of 4 weeks after TTM.

 

[Nina51]

I use TTM for fish to eradicate Ich. I bought two large totes and disposable airstones, two heaters, two thermometers, and a variety of pvc pieces. I use the totes because they are so easy to clean. Since each setup is identical the fish hardly know the difference. After the 12 days of transfer I put them in the QT and observe for 2-3 days. Then after they are settled in I treat with Prazipro to eliminate any other type of parasites. They stay in the QT for a total of 4 weeks after TTM.

this is the procedure i use, ttm then 4 weeks of observation. i do not treat with anything unless i see a problem (which i have yet to see).

my tank is almost fully stocked, i'll probably get one or two more fish eventually but when the time comes, i'll just set up the qt and start over.

 

[wooden_reefer]

"this is the procedure i use, ttm then 4 weeks of observation. i do not treat with anything unless i see a problem "

How do you maintain the water chemical quality during TT and 4 weeks of observation later?

If ich infestation does happen to your DT, what are you going to do?

 

[shesacharmer]

During TT if you have an ammonia badge you know if you need to do a water change. The fish are only in each container for three days so water quality is fine.

During QT, basically the same. You will have to do water changes. The ammonia badge is a huge help. The more fish in QT at once the more often you will need to do water changes. I have a HOB filter with just floss on the QT and I change the floss every day. That's it.

 

[Nina51]

How do you maintain the water chemical quality during TT and 4 weeks of observation later?

If ich infestation does happen to your DT, what are you going to do?

that is why i do ttm, so ich won't be a problem. i do what shesacharmer does. water changes when necessary, every 2 or 3 days since i only qt 1 small fish at a time.

During QT, basically the same. You will have to do water changes. The ammonia badge is a huge help.

this ^ plus i keep a few small filter sponges in my sump at all times so that i will have some biological filtration to toss into the qt.

now, having said all of that, i did buy a wrasse from the local fish store and put him in my qt yesterday. if he lives (today he doesn't look so great), i will do ttm with him in a few weeks and then he will stay in qt for another 6-8 weeks. most of my fish have come from LA/DD and while i still do ttm and qt, i am not quite as concerned as i am with this wrasse, since he came from an "unknown" source. i did get him still in the shipping bag before he went into their display tank so, we'll just have to see...

 

[wooden_reefer]

During TT if you have an ammonia badge you know if you need to do a water change. The fish are only in each container for three days so water quality is fine.

During QT, basically the same. You will have to do water changes. The ammonia badge is a huge help. The more fish in QT at once the more often you will need to do water changes. I have a HOB filter with just floss on the QT and I change the floss every day. That's it.

Ammonia is quite toxic and even moderate exposure is not advisable. I'd say that there is a certain level so low that it does not matter, but what is it? Lower than many want to believe.

I seldom change water during QT. The need for water change in QT is often (not always) the same as that in DT. After you have cycled the medium for QT, and if no drug that interferes with nitrification is used, there will be no ammonia, as there will not be in DT. This is true no matter how many fish and how big their are you are QTing. This is what cycling in advance will allow.

As long as a drug that interferes with nitrification is NOT used, in terms of maintenance, QT is basically a FO DT that does not look very good, just as easy to maintain.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Let's say if you have a very large fish in mind, say a ten inch queen angel. How would you QT it and avoid ammonia?

It is often suggested to stock slowly, but in terms of bioload it is not always possible.

I QT a ten inch queen angel no sweat, even ten such fish all at once.

It is always possible to cycle in advance to handle any possible bioload and do little water change (unless a drug that interferes with nitrification has to be used).

 

[CodeBlueMedic]

I feel rather confused as to how the TTM works, so I will likely just stick with a basic QT setup. As it is now, I've got a 10 gallon setup with light, heater and HOB filter, waiting for it to cycle. Once it is done, I'll likely get a couple fish (watchman goby and B&W clown) and let them QT in there for 6-8 weeks. I haven't decided if I want to prophylactically treat with copper or not....

 

[wooden_reefer]

TT works because ich has a definite lifecycle and all phases are obligatory.

Another strike against TT for me is that I NEVER use a net to catch fish.

I use the transparent bag slo-motion method and often include some substrate matters.

TT will not work when you transfer fish with some substrate disturbed and included and then transfered to the next tank.

The net is the number one cause of external bacterial infection. If a fish is off water, it will likely be on my once-washed hand.