let the insanity begin
- Thread starter rick rottet
- Start date
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
Well gang, sorry for the slow reply, but the "hum" of life has gotten fairly loud here lately....which is a good thing as far as the greenhouse is concerned, 
...maybe not so good for my sanity level, which was already "6 feet from the edge" before I started this project.
Covey- my water temps have been manageable. We had a week straight with outside air temps at 94 - 98 with 80+% humidity (according to the news...but the thermometer I have outside the greenhouse was reading 103 on two of those days). The water in the tanks was hanging around the 81 - 84 range most of the time, but there were a couple of days when the water temp got up to 85, but only for a few hours in the mid-afternoon. I can live with that.
For the rest of the requests, I really don't have the time right now to set up a summary or an index of the thread. Sorry. I had given some thought to running a separate thread with coral pictures only, but thought that wouldn't be very fair to the people who have been following this thread. So, if I can get some free hours in the next few weeks, I will try to get some coral pics taken and loaded up.
tata for now, and I'll try getting some pics up soon-ish.
...maybe not so good for my sanity level, which was already "6 feet from the edge" before I started this project. Covey- my water temps have been manageable. We had a week straight with outside air temps at 94 - 98 with 80+% humidity (according to the news...but the thermometer I have outside the greenhouse was reading 103 on two of those days). The water in the tanks was hanging around the 81 - 84 range most of the time, but there were a couple of days when the water temp got up to 85, but only for a few hours in the mid-afternoon. I can live with that.
For the rest of the requests, I really don't have the time right now to set up a summary or an index of the thread. Sorry. I had given some thought to running a separate thread with coral pictures only, but thought that wouldn't be very fair to the people who have been following this thread. So, if I can get some free hours in the next few weeks, I will try to get some coral pics taken and loaded up.
tata for now, and I'll try getting some pics up soon-ish.
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
How did the greenhouse hold up in the recent storms?
We got hosed. I wound up being one of the lucky few who was able to purchase a generator here in StL.
Now, almost a year later, the wife says I was right and we should have bought a generator before the storms.
Its nice being right, but the timing and circumstances could be better.
Hows your generator holding up?
Nick
We got hosed. I wound up being one of the lucky few who was able to purchase a generator here in StL.
Now, almost a year later, the wife says I was right and we should have bought a generator before the storms.
Its nice being right, but the timing and circumstances could be better.
Hows your generator holding up?
Nick
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
it starts and runs once per week like it is supposed to. it has only had to supply power one time since it was installed. i've had no problems thus far due to inclement weather....just lucky i guess
Rick,
When you were seeing mid 80's tank temps what were the ambient conditions in the gh itself like. I am wondering mostly about how the tanks fluctuate throughout a really hot day.
Where I am setting up a 95+ day with 70-80 humidity will not be all that uncommon and I am wondering if a water volume of 300-600 gals will be able to withstand those conditions. It would seem like it's possible but real life is more telling than the calculations.
BTW haven't posted here before because I stand in awe of your resolve and resourcefulness.
When you were seeing mid 80's tank temps what were the ambient conditions in the gh itself like. I am wondering mostly about how the tanks fluctuate throughout a really hot day.
Where I am setting up a 95+ day with 70-80 humidity will not be all that uncommon and I am wondering if a water volume of 300-600 gals will be able to withstand those conditions. It would seem like it's possible but real life is more telling than the calculations.
BTW haven't posted here before because I stand in awe of your resolve and resourcefulness.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
thanks raaden
inside the greenhouse was 94 - 100. (but my thermometer inside the greenhouse gets hit with direct sunlight....it may read a little high because of that???). As long as the air is not excessively humid, even on the worst days, it doesn't get any hotter inside the greenhouse than it is outside. Now, if the fans and evap pads were to be shut off...look out!
the keys seem to be massive air flow from the exhaust fan(s)...2 -3 times the volume of the gh per hour. That coupled with the evap pads and circulating fans. I run four circulating fans with each pushing 1800 cfm, i keep them about 12" above the top of the tanks. My exhaust fan pulls around 10,500 cfm.
When outside temps are in the mid 80's and low 90's, there is no problem keeping the water temps in check around 79 - 81, but with weather like we had last week and are scheduled to get again the next few days (mid to high 90's and 80+ humidity), I don't think i will ever keep the tank temps at or below 80 (without a chiller or AC), but corals can tolerate a little bit higher temps as long as the jumps in temp are not too quick. That is where the tank volume comes into play. Mine are 210 g. Anything that size or larger is likely to be a good size.
All of these control systems won't keep the tanks ideal on the bad days, but every little bit helps and all of the systems added up together will keep it tolerable through the hottest part of the year.
Good luck. Don't hesitate to shoot me questions here or PM if you think I can help.
inside the greenhouse was 94 - 100. (but my thermometer inside the greenhouse gets hit with direct sunlight....it may read a little high because of that???). As long as the air is not excessively humid, even on the worst days, it doesn't get any hotter inside the greenhouse than it is outside. Now, if the fans and evap pads were to be shut off...look out!
the keys seem to be massive air flow from the exhaust fan(s)...2 -3 times the volume of the gh per hour. That coupled with the evap pads and circulating fans. I run four circulating fans with each pushing 1800 cfm, i keep them about 12" above the top of the tanks. My exhaust fan pulls around 10,500 cfm.
When outside temps are in the mid 80's and low 90's, there is no problem keeping the water temps in check around 79 - 81, but with weather like we had last week and are scheduled to get again the next few days (mid to high 90's and 80+ humidity), I don't think i will ever keep the tank temps at or below 80 (without a chiller or AC), but corals can tolerate a little bit higher temps as long as the jumps in temp are not too quick. That is where the tank volume comes into play. Mine are 210 g. Anything that size or larger is likely to be a good size.
All of these control systems won't keep the tanks ideal on the bad days, but every little bit helps and all of the systems added up together will keep it tolerable through the hottest part of the year.
Good luck. Don't hesitate to shoot me questions here or PM if you think I can help.
BallaBooyeaH
Premium Member
Well rick,
My eyes are frazzled from reading this post (most of it) at the expense of my employer.
I'm wanting to do a setup but never thought of how big it can get - till I went through your post.
How do you think it will work out financialy? When will break even be achieved.
Not sure if you have seen it but these guys in australia do it on a kinda bigger scale but they also have access to reefs. it is http://www.australiancoralfarms.com.au/ go to the about us page and look on the right hand side.
Thought you had problems with weather - these guys have to deal with hurricanes.
Well all the best and I'll keep watching.
:wavehand:
My eyes are frazzled from reading this post (most of it) at the expense of my employer.
I'm wanting to do a setup but never thought of how big it can get - till I went through your post.
How do you think it will work out financialy? When will break even be achieved.
Not sure if you have seen it but these guys in australia do it on a kinda bigger scale but they also have access to reefs. it is http://www.australiancoralfarms.com.au/ go to the about us page and look on the right hand side.
Thought you had problems with weather - these guys have to deal with hurricanes.
Well all the best and I'll keep watching.
:wavehand:
BallaBooyeaH
Premium Member
Well rick,
My eyes are frazzled from reading this post (most of it) at the expense of my employer.
I'm wanting to do a setup but never thought of how big it can get - till I went through your post.
How do you think it will work out financialy? When will break even be achieved.
Not sure if you have seen it but these guys in australia do it on a kinda bigger scale but they also have access to reefs. it is http://www.australiancoralfarms.com.au/ go to the about us page and look on the right hand side.
Thought you had problems with weather - these guys have to deal with hurricanes.
Well all the best and I'll keep watching.
:wavehand:
My eyes are frazzled from reading this post (most of it) at the expense of my employer.
I'm wanting to do a setup but never thought of how big it can get - till I went through your post.
How do you think it will work out financialy? When will break even be achieved.
Not sure if you have seen it but these guys in australia do it on a kinda bigger scale but they also have access to reefs. it is http://www.australiancoralfarms.com.au/ go to the about us page and look on the right hand side.
Thought you had problems with weather - these guys have to deal with hurricanes.
Well all the best and I'll keep watching.
:wavehand:
Rick,
That is excellent news, stable tank temps in the summer seem to be the last of the big issues I can foresee and since it is just a bit warmer here in NC I think I can get away with the smaller of the two solutions. My two solutions were:
1. Since I have a well I could look into geothermal heat pumps which are a great idea but don't seem to be as solid as I would like (just from reading around reliability issues are everywhere), and are crazy expenive (>30K with an existing well) for the heating load I would need(8.5T). This would be nice since they say the cooling is just about free, and heating would have saved me about $400 a month in the dead of winter. When I expand the facility and can afford an industrial one (>85K) I may go this route for the savings. OR
2. Since I am on a well I need to preheat the feed water for my RO/DI and why not cool the tanks at the same time. I can get a Titanium coil ($35/Tank) and run the water through the tanks to cool them and preheat the feedwater. Since you are not seeing terrible swings in the heat I think this route will be the best case.
I will be sending you a couple of things shortly, and look forward to tapping your knowledge.
Balla,
That is a really nice link, and they have some impressive facilities... not sure I could foresee anything that big in my future, but you never know.
That is excellent news, stable tank temps in the summer seem to be the last of the big issues I can foresee and since it is just a bit warmer here in NC I think I can get away with the smaller of the two solutions. My two solutions were:
1. Since I have a well I could look into geothermal heat pumps which are a great idea but don't seem to be as solid as I would like (just from reading around reliability issues are everywhere), and are crazy expenive (>30K with an existing well) for the heating load I would need(8.5T). This would be nice since they say the cooling is just about free, and heating would have saved me about $400 a month in the dead of winter. When I expand the facility and can afford an industrial one (>85K) I may go this route for the savings. OR
2. Since I am on a well I need to preheat the feed water for my RO/DI and why not cool the tanks at the same time. I can get a Titanium coil ($35/Tank) and run the water through the tanks to cool them and preheat the feedwater. Since you are not seeing terrible swings in the heat I think this route will be the best case.
I will be sending you a couple of things shortly, and look forward to tapping your knowledge.
Balla,
That is a really nice link, and they have some impressive facilities... not sure I could foresee anything that big in my future, but you never know.
Rick,
This is my first post ever on RC. All I can say is ... WOW! (Actually, what I wanted to say would be R-rated!) You can thank melev for pointing me in the direction of this thread. It has been an eye opening experience reading the ups and downs of your "project". If I ever get frustrated with my own tanks, or need to prove to my wife that I DON'T spend too much time and money on my hobby, I will refer to this thread!
I wish you all the success in the world. When does the hobby become a business, and how will you let us know?
Dana
This is my first post ever on RC. All I can say is ... WOW! (Actually, what I wanted to say would be R-rated!) You can thank melev for pointing me in the direction of this thread. It has been an eye opening experience reading the ups and downs of your "project". If I ever get frustrated with my own tanks, or need to prove to my wife that I DON'T spend too much time and money on my hobby, I will refer to this thread!
I wish you all the success in the world. When does the hobby become a business, and how will you let us know?
Dana
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
Dana,
TO REEF CENTRAL
and to the CIMA forum
TO REEF CENTRAL
and to the CIMA forum
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
raaden-I had examined using the "tap water chiller" on it's way to the RO as well. For me, I just didn't think there would be enough volume flowing to obtain an adequate cost vs benefit ratio, but each facility is different. Look forward to chatting with you.
BallaBooyeaH- Financially, it will be tough for the first couple of years, ....oh wait, it's been a couple of years...so maybe it will be tough for a couple more... Thanks for the compliments and for the link.
One more new arrival picture. Monster sized green Sinularia. Just put into the tank, so it is still closed up. I might have to remove the eggcrate from this tank once it opens up all the way...or more likely, frag it sooner rather than later!
I also got another colony of the same Lobophytum (devil's hand) that was pictured back on the previous page. The new one is about ten inches. I also obtained about ten nice size colonies of Xenia which are right now just loose in gravel trays.
BallaBooyeaH- Financially, it will be tough for the first couple of years, ....oh wait, it's been a couple of years...so maybe it will be tough for a couple more...
Thanks for the compliments and for the link.One more new arrival picture. Monster sized green Sinularia. Just put into the tank, so it is still closed up. I might have to remove the eggcrate from this tank once it opens up all the way...or more likely, frag it sooner rather than later!
I also got another colony of the same Lobophytum (devil's hand) that was pictured back on the previous page. The new one is about ten inches. I also obtained about ten nice size colonies of Xenia which are right now just loose in gravel trays.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
Here are some pictures of the corals growing in the greenhouse. I will try to keep this updated as time goes by so the growth and reproduction can be seen.
Lobophytum (devil's hand), complete with fragging scars. This coral also drops pieces of itself from time to time. I pick them up when I find them and drop them in a gravel tray or sew them to a rock.
Some of the smaller cuttings.
Sinularia, also scarred. I will get a little more agressive with the cutting as time goes on and the mother corals prove their hardiness. This colony and it's frags now has it's own tank.
Sinularia cuttings.
Sarcophyton elegans. Remember, I started with ten of these. Only half of the tank would fit into a decent picture (that second gray bar on the right side of the picture is the exact middle of the tank). There are ten or eleven more in the other half of the tank too. Plus that tray full of little frags, and another tray like that one.
These corals are just so beautiful that I can't help but show a close up of them. Remember, the eggcrate holes are 1/2". These two colonies are about 3" diameter.
Here is one of the trays of smaller cuttings.
Zoanthids. Rusty red skirt with yellow mouth, and green skirt with orange center ("eagle eyes")... and frags.
Remember those two semi-green Sinularia when they were new arrivals? It is now five, plus one that is no longer in residence. It is a cloudy day in this picture, but when the sun is out, these guys really glow.
And that brown Sinularia that I had said didn't look bad when it came right out of the shipping bag...is now three good colonies and two smaller frags, also plus one that is no longer in residence. It looks more of a pink-ish brown now.
Lobophytum (devil's hand), complete with fragging scars. This coral also drops pieces of itself from time to time. I pick them up when I find them and drop them in a gravel tray or sew them to a rock.
Some of the smaller cuttings.
Sinularia, also scarred. I will get a little more agressive with the cutting as time goes on and the mother corals prove their hardiness. This colony and it's frags now has it's own tank.
Sinularia cuttings.
Sarcophyton elegans. Remember, I started with ten of these. Only half of the tank would fit into a decent picture (that second gray bar on the right side of the picture is the exact middle of the tank). There are ten or eleven more in the other half of the tank too. Plus that tray full of little frags, and another tray like that one.
These corals are just so beautiful that I can't help but show a close up of them. Remember, the eggcrate holes are 1/2". These two colonies are about 3" diameter.
Here is one of the trays of smaller cuttings.
Zoanthids. Rusty red skirt with yellow mouth, and green skirt with orange center ("eagle eyes")... and frags.
Remember those two semi-green Sinularia when they were new arrivals? It is now five, plus one that is no longer in residence. It is a cloudy day in this picture, but when the sun is out, these guys really glow.
And that brown Sinularia that I had said didn't look bad when it came right out of the shipping bag...is now three good colonies and two smaller frags, also plus one that is no longer in residence. It looks more of a pink-ish brown now.
Rick,
Very Nice Pictures! I can't believe how much growth you are getting, especially with the Sarco's. They all look so happy, and if you are getting droppings from the Lobo you must be really psyched. I would say it is pretty obvious that all that hard work is starting to "pay off" not so much with money yet but the results so far look great.
The chiller idea started because my well water is way to cold (~60) for the RODI so I needed to do something about that then from what you said about the temp of your tanks being pretty stable I figured I could make up for a little bit of it on the really hot days by running the water through. I am not sure if it will make a huge difference but I will take it if it's free.
Once again great stuff
Very Nice Pictures! I can't believe how much growth you are getting, especially with the Sarco's. They all look so happy, and if you are getting droppings from the Lobo you must be really psyched. I would say it is pretty obvious that all that hard work is starting to "pay off" not so much with money yet but the results so far look great.
The chiller idea started because my well water is way to cold (~60) for the RODI so I needed to do something about that then from what you said about the temp of your tanks being pretty stable I figured I could make up for a little bit of it on the really hot days by running the water through. I am not sure if it will make a huge difference but I will take it if it's free.
Once again great stuff
:beer:
Reefrookey
Member
Rick - I read every page of this thread but cant remember if you ever were able to replace the ANI ion. it looks as if dr foster/smith has them on clearance. I dont know if you will be able to see this link but i just wanted to try and help out if i could. Great job!! the way you have hung in there is very commendable
www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4499&N=2004+2033+113762
www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4499&N=2004+2033+113762
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
yup, actually it was the kati that burst open, but i was able to repair it. thanks just the same.
oh, BTW
To Reef Central AND THE CENTRAL ILLINOIS MARINE AQUARISTS!
oh, BTW
To Reef Central AND THE CENTRAL ILLINOIS MARINE AQUARISTS!
Reefrookey
Member
Thanks for the warm welcome, i have actually been "Reading" for several years on reef central, just not talking. For what its worth that's how much your efforts inspired me!!
