let the insanity begin

If I recall correctly, you don't plan to run these all that full, right? If they are full, I think they will swell quite a bit. The sumps I build are 16" tall and yours is 24". Filling up a sump with no top flange, it bows out quite a bit even though there are some internal baffles. Yours looks nice while its empty, but I have a feeling it will not keep the shape too long once a bunch of water is added. :( I think you need a shadowy top flange. ;)

That being said, you are making the 2x4 pony walls to go around the tanks, so that should help immensely.

Looking forward to hearing your experiences.
 
i am as well.. if you are framing those out they shouldnt Bow to much... Where did you get those PVC Piece's for the corners?
 
The tanks will be nearly full. Maybe 2" down from the top. I expect some bowing (actually, I expect the thing to blow apart but am hoping for bowing). I am also trying to avoid using the "pony walls" because they add 7" to the length and width of the stand...and after five stands on each side of the greenhouse, I lose about 3' so I would have to eliminate one tank from each side of the greenhouse.
The pvc angle in the corner of each joint came from US Plastics.

The second attempt at filling the tank went a little better. I got about 80 gallons in before I saw any water, and it was a slow seep. After I wiped the leak dry, it took about 3 or 4 seconds to accumulate enough to be called a drop. The water is pumped back out of the tank and it appeared to be leaking where two pieces of the pvc angle butted against each other. Waiting for glue to dry...again. Deep sigh
 
When I first filled my tank I put a video camera on it. The thought was if anything exciting happened the prize money from america's funniest videos would help cover repairs.

Is there a gap in the corner bracing in the very corner of the tank? If so you might be able to get rid of it (on future tanks) by doing a 45 miter on 2 of the 3 pieces going into the corner.

What type of glue are you using? I would recomend a medium grade pvc cement. That is what I use when doing oddball joints on skimmers. It has some gap filling ability, certainly more than what I think you would need. Slap on thick, let outgas a few days and you are good. The joints won't have full strength until they are fully outgassed. The way I slap on the glue that is typically a week.

How difficult was it to position all the stuff for assembly?

Very exciting!
 
Rick,
I hate to say this. I think you already know. You will probably need to add support on the top of some kind. I tried the same thing with 3/8" acrylic. No top brace. The deepest my water is, is 14" and all of the tanks bowed. Some of them even ripped the acrylic braces apart before I could fix them. I glued one of the last top braces today. It is a pain in the arse doing it after the fact.

Good luck.:)
 
tschopp- The long sides have the angle the entire length. The short sides have the angle cut 1" short on each end. So yes, there is a 1" gap at the ends of the short wall. I hate mitering but I do have a hobby style razor saw and miter box I used to use to cut parts to build radio controlled planes. My hacksaw might even fit the slots of the miter box.
I'm using Oatey's heavy duty clear pvc glue. The leaks I fixed yesterday didn't leak after about two hours drying time. I tried the third fill last night and had another one on one of the short ends after the tank was about thirteen inches full. Each leak has been in a different spot and higher up but this most recent one, I couldn't locate a void so I just ran another bead the full length of every joint that was close to the leak. Haven't tried the fouth fill yet, will do that shortly. The parts aren't too difficult to position, they slip around a little until the excess glue is squeezed out.

Treeman- When you say the braces ripped off, where were they? You mean cross braces acroos the top of your tanks or something else? I checked your thread at "the other site" but can't remember.
 
Approximately 180 gallons. No leaks...yet, but the walls are definitely stressed at this point. They are bowed out at the submerged cross braces about 3/8" and between the braces about 3/4". (OK,OK,OK,...I'm ready to concede. Even a tough semi-old hard head like me can only bang his head with a hammer just so many times before it starts to hurt.) Now I'm thinking, maybe if I put 3 cross braces at the top, one between the submerged braces and each end, and another across the middle, that might be good. In less than 30 minutes, one of the submerged braces failed and caused one of the long walls to start leaking in several places along an area of about 2'. Again, pump all of the water out and call it a day.
mini-100_0251.JPG


Anybody got a use for some pvc sheet? :mixed: :blown: :hammer: :crazy1::lol:
 
If you had a 2" flange on the top, I think it would be better. Or like the top I showed you with holes routed out. But then you are back to shadows...
 
Rick,

Do you think building a 3/4" plywood box around the plastic would do the trick? I know that plywood is not cheap and that would add 1 1/2" to the length and to the width. That, and two or three threaded stainless steel rods across the top for bracing. Shadows would be nearly nonexistent. If your tanks start failing it would be ugly.

Joe
 
I was thinking that building a 2x4 frame for the tank to sit in might help. Maybe build it so that the top of the frame went all the way around the outside of the tank at about 2/3s height. That would help with the pressure. I remember seeing some where on the net where some guy built a serious of tanks out of 1/4" that werwe 12" and really long like 8'. And he had to 2x4s on edge to keep them from bowing out.

Then you could frame it in like a stud wall every 12"s and that would cut down on the bowing big time. 16' 2x4s are much cheaper than low grade 3/4" plywood.

Think about it.
 
salty joe- heehee, it already is ugly!! I think plywood boxes would surely work. Even considered using them for the possibility of being able to screw down a lid over the tanks in case of disastrous weather. The general consensus is that, around this part of the country, bad weather comes up fast and there wouldn't be enough warning time (like with hurricanes in Florida) to run out and screw down lids anyway. Beyond that, I can't see why I couldn't use plywood except for the fact that I'm a stubborn old goat. I have seen plywood boxes lined with different types of plastic at some of the LA wholesalers.

minifinger- look back about six pics. I just can't stand the thought of losing one or two tanks due to the extra room taken up by the 2 x 4 framework.

Maybe I'll just forget all this plastic stuff and go back to glass. I've always loved glass and they display so much more in perspective to what corals would look like in a home aquarium and no worries about getting enough light into the tank. Just gotta try a few more things first. (in other words, keep banging my head with the proverbial hammer) :lol:
 
question. do you need ALL your tanks on stands? you could probably get by with less room inbetween the tanks if they were on the ground. also, if you had to take one down. it would not interfere with anything...

also. if you put the backs of 2 tanks together.. especially on the ground they will push against each other, and not stress that side.. then all you would need would be bracing on the out side of the cluster...
 
matt- I suppose tanks could be set on the ground, except for my back would probably get real tired of bending over to do prop work and water changes and other maintanence. Would also be a little inconvenient for viewing. I also have to wonder about plastic tanks sitting on the gravel and if it would make allot of pressure points on the bottom of the tanks. Putting two tanks together has always been the plan, makes the most efficient use of space.

Probably going to;
1) fix the side of the current tank that developed leaks when the submerged brace failed, then fix the brace.
2) try putting the three additional cross braces at the top of the tank as described above (try that first just because I have the material on hand to do so)
3) if that blows out too, try the flanges around the top of the tank (in that order because I would need to buy extra material to make the flanges)
4) if all of that fails, either;
a) go back to the wooden support frames...or
b) sell all of the pvc sheet and go glass.
 
New style, new trial.
mini-100_0252.JPG


About 190 gallons. No leaks yet, but...
mini-100_0253.JPG


ooopsy. Lasted about 10 minutes. Back to the drawing board.
mini-100_0254.JPG
 
You're probably right. Rods would be good. I think Gpa John also mentioned those a few pages back.
At our club meeting today, tschopp and I also talked about the idea of keeping the pvc square stock how it is and putting SS screws into the braces from the outside of the tank. I think it was Scubadude who mentioned those too and I told him that would be an option if the tanks blew (and they did). The tanks stayed really straight when they were full this last time and we're hopng the screws would keep the braces from blowing. I stopped on the way home from the meeting and picked up some SS screws and big SS washers. Screws are cheaper than rod.
Oh well, I guess it's all part of trying something different and trying to do it as cheaply as possible and fit it all into a floor plan geared towards maximizing space for propagation.
 
One more try, number five I believe. Thanks to the suggestions of Scubadude and tschopp, there are now stainless steel screws and 1 1/2" stainless steel washers screwed through the sides and into each cross brace. There were many other suggestions and ideas that I'm sure would have worked as well, like making cross braces from stainless steel threaded rod suggested by Gpa John and indianafishkeeper or stainless steel wire also suggested by tschopp. (forgive me if I don't remember everyone who suggested something) Since the square pvc was already on hand and being used, the screws seemed like the most logical and cost effective next step.
mini-100_0255.JPG


So far so good. Tank has been full for about an hour now. We may have a winner here. (I half expect it to blow out at the bottom this time.)
mini-100_0257.JPG


Just imagine, a little item like this making such a big difference.
mini-100_0256.JPG
 
Rick,
are you concerned about the screws and washers eventually failing due to rust? Stainless steel wiil rust, it just takes longer.

Nick
 
I'd like to see you put something along the long sides of the tank on the outside, and screwing through that into your rods. That way the pressure is spread out and helps keep everything straight. The screw is definitely the weakest link in this design.

That one picture of the blowout: :eek2:

Btw, please don't take this the wrong way because I know you are really doing your best... I'd like to see you do something that is 100% trustworthy, so you can focus on your main goal and not spend time fixing a tank each month. :(
 
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