rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
:mad2: :lol:
let the insanity begin
- Thread starter rick rottet
- Start date
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
melev- thanks for catching that first post.
Stryyf- Thanks, and you're absolutely right. Evaporation works less efficiently when there is more humidity in the air. My hope is that it will be "good enough" to keep me away from the more expensive options like geothermal loops and chillers. cseeton had posted a "psychrometric chart" back about ten or so pages which shows many combinations of temp and humidity that can be present to achieve a desired amount of cooling. Basically, I need to keep the air inside the greenhouse around 86 - 88 F to keep the water around 80 F. According to that chart, if the outside air temp is 100, there can be about 62% humidity and I should bo ok. If the outside air temp is 95, there can be about 75 % humidity.
The outside air temp can spike a little during the day and the water won't heat up immediately, it takes several hours for the water temp to start rising. Yesterday, the outside air temp was around 85 F. With all of the fans inside the greenhouse running and the water flowing on the DIY evap pad, the greenhouse air temp was 94 - 101 F, depending on if there were any clouds rolling overhead or not. The water in the first tank never got above 84 F and that is acceptable to me (but right on the high end of acceptable). My black tub had a similar temp, but the live rock vat was around 88 F.
As far as how the trial pad is working, I don't really feel that much difference inside the greenhouse, but there are (I think) a couple of issues with the material being used. It is fairly dense so air coming in through the shutter just sort of hits the pad and then has to go around it. The air coming around the pad definitely feels cooler than the air coming in through the other shutter (haven't put a pad in front of the other shutter yet). With this material being dense enough to not allow good airflow through it, there seems to be a resistance created in front of that shutter which allows the other shutter (without the pad) to pull in much more air than it usually would. If I can get some looser material, I think it would be a more fair trial.
Stryyf- Thanks, and you're absolutely right. Evaporation works less efficiently when there is more humidity in the air. My hope is that it will be "good enough" to keep me away from the more expensive options like geothermal loops and chillers. cseeton had posted a "psychrometric chart" back about ten or so pages which shows many combinations of temp and humidity that can be present to achieve a desired amount of cooling. Basically, I need to keep the air inside the greenhouse around 86 - 88 F to keep the water around 80 F. According to that chart, if the outside air temp is 100, there can be about 62% humidity and I should bo ok. If the outside air temp is 95, there can be about 75 % humidity.
The outside air temp can spike a little during the day and the water won't heat up immediately, it takes several hours for the water temp to start rising. Yesterday, the outside air temp was around 85 F. With all of the fans inside the greenhouse running and the water flowing on the DIY evap pad, the greenhouse air temp was 94 - 101 F, depending on if there were any clouds rolling overhead or not. The water in the first tank never got above 84 F and that is acceptable to me (but right on the high end of acceptable). My black tub had a similar temp, but the live rock vat was around 88 F.
As far as how the trial pad is working, I don't really feel that much difference inside the greenhouse, but there are (I think) a couple of issues with the material being used. It is fairly dense so air coming in through the shutter just sort of hits the pad and then has to go around it. The air coming around the pad definitely feels cooler than the air coming in through the other shutter (haven't put a pad in front of the other shutter yet). With this material being dense enough to not allow good airflow through it, there seems to be a resistance created in front of that shutter which allows the other shutter (without the pad) to pull in much more air than it usually would. If I can get some looser material, I think it would be a more fair trial.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
I am pretty content to just find a looser material like fiberglass woven furnace filters, or investing in actual evap pads. Angling them would be better than what I have now, but it won't be as efficient as a "flow through" design would be.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
I'll have to go check Lowe's. I looked at Menards, Home Depot, and two of the bigger farm supply stores around here but didn't see anything that big. Thanks.
Revolution
New member
http://www.kennspenns.com/coolerparts/aspen.html
this is where i bought my swamp cooler pads when i lived in the desert. really nice people to talk to.
Brad
this is where i bought my swamp cooler pads when i lived in the desert. really nice people to talk to.
Brad
Rick,
My Northern Tool catalog has evaporative cooling pads, as well as a number of evaporative coolers (and lots of other cool stuff!)
I assume they have the same stuff online http://www.northerntool.com
Dan
My Northern Tool catalog has evaporative cooling pads, as well as a number of evaporative coolers (and lots of other cool stuff!)
I assume they have the same stuff online http://www.northerntool.com
Dan
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
Thanks Brad, Thanks Dan.
I'll be checking those links directly.
I'll be checking those links directly.
Reefing'n'Rio
New member
I'm speechlessly taggin. You've got yourself a brazilian fan !
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
Welcome....to the thread and to Reef Central.
To Reef Central
To Reef Central
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Reefing'n'Rio
New member
thanks for your nice welcome post Rick. I'm not even done reading the whole thread yet but already really impressed with your work. when I'm done reading I will probably have a couple questions for you.
in the meantime, maybe you can help me with one thing that is making me curious since I started sneaking in reef central a few days ago: what does LOL mean
in the meantime, maybe you can help me with one thing that is making me curious since I started sneaking in reef central a few days ago: what does LOL mean
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
Laugh Out Loud...(or laughing out loud)
just a way to convey to the reader that a statement was meant to be humorous (or that a reader thought that a statement was humorous)
Thank you Mantis.
just a way to convey to the reader that a statement was meant to be humorous (or that a reader thought that a statement was humorous)
Thank you Mantis.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
cseeton- tank temps are B-E-A-UTIFUL.
andy- never heard that one before, but hey, if it works for you, then it's ok with me.
andy- never heard that one before, but hey, if it works for you, then it's ok with me.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
As I said, that green "scotch-brite" pad is fairly dense and just doesn't allow for adequate air flow through the material. I checked all around at the local stores. I did find a few items like dehumidifier pads and some synthetic furnace filters that probably would have worked, but they were small enough that many of them would have to be tied together to cover the shutters. They were also thin and just didn't look like they would provide enough contact time to be very efficient. I checked into evap pads on some web sites that people have been sharing with me and did allot of searching on my own. Most of the companies producing evap pads are making them 12" wide and then either 4" or 6" thick. They are available in many heights in 12" increments. They can be found (or custom made) in any width/thickness/height a person may desire, but the bigger/taller pads need extra support devices and the price goes up dramatically. Many of the online retailers have listed prices that are fairly expensive. Retail prices were typically around $300 to cover both shutters. I also checked into an online distributor for the 'Kuul Pads' company, among others. I first checked directly with Kuul Pads and they referred me to one of their distributors (WWGrainger) right here in Illinois. They had the pads and at a decent price... $72 plus change for a package of 5. That was for 4" thick X 12" wide X 48" tall. I would need 8 pads of that size to cover my shutters, but would have to buy 2 packages. It took the better part of 4 days and 3 separate attempts to try to get an account with them, one try online and two by phone call. This was in addition to the half dozen emails that went back and forth between us. It was the most exasperating experience I have ever endured while trying to get an account with any company. Even if I would have pursued getting an account with them, it would have taken them 17 business days to fill an order for the evap pads. They also told me that sales tax would be applied to the order. Hmmm...they advertise on their web site that they only sell to other businesses, which in my book means wholesale. Illinois doesn't require sales tax on wholesale purchases or sales, so what's up with that. All in all, I couldn't bring myself to do business with them for several reasons. The amount of time it took just to try to get an account set up (which was never completed successfully), the sales tax issue, the total lack of communication within their company plus the fact that in the amount of time it took to comply with their requirements, I could have had the pads in my hand and already installed if I would have ordered them elsewhere. You know the old saying, good things are seldom cheap and cheap things are seldom good. Or likewise, you get what you pay for (but sometimes, you pay for what you get-if you know what I mean).
I ended up just ordering the pads from Atlas, my greenhouse supplier. I can't say enough good things about them. Everybody there is so polite and knowledgeable. They are very reliable and expedient. Atlas uses exclusively Quietaire equipment (HAF fans, exhaust fans, shutters, etc) and also uses their evap pads. Quietaire has been in business since the 1920's and is always in the forefront of new technology. The pads from Atlas were a little over $23 each for that same size, so about $180 to cover both shutters and they will be here in about 3 business days, just like clockwork. A little more expensive, but the extra $40 is well worth it to me to have "no hassle" and worry-free transactions. It also doesn't hurt to show a company I have a sense of loyalty because they are so reliable, you never know, I might need to purchase another greenhouse someday.
The temps have not been too bad lately. Outside ambient temp has been hanging out in the mid 80's. Air temp inside the greenhouse in the mid 90's with all of the fans running and whatever good the DIY evap pad may (or may not) be doing.The water temp in the first tank has been in the low 80's at it's peak. The tank water gets down to around 77 at night but the outside air temp has been getting down around the mid 50's at night, so the furnace has to run a little just to knock the chill out of the air and keep the night time temp drop within reason.
Today it was 87 F outside, 96 F inside, and water temp at 2 pm just a hair over 80 F. That is with about 43 % humidity, so the fans are helping with evap from the tank. I also think that the airlifts are helping a little also. With the blower on the floor, theoretically, it would be sucking in the coolest air possible and since it is not overloaded anymore, the output air is MUCH cooler as well. Just the simple fact that air is bubbling through the tank is sure to help the evap rate, plus making lots of ripples and waves will help to increase the surface area and help a little more.
I have removed two of the layers of screen over the first tank so there is only one layer remaining.
Nothing like good ol' sunshine.
Lux reading. I bought this meter before the greenhouse construction ever started. I figured even if I never built the greenhouse, the meter would come in handy for my display tanks when acclimating new corals. A 250 W MH bulb will measure about 20 Klux if the meter is approximately 1 foot away from the light. Remember, this is in September with a 30% shade cloth.
I ended up just ordering the pads from Atlas, my greenhouse supplier. I can't say enough good things about them. Everybody there is so polite and knowledgeable. They are very reliable and expedient. Atlas uses exclusively Quietaire equipment (HAF fans, exhaust fans, shutters, etc) and also uses their evap pads. Quietaire has been in business since the 1920's and is always in the forefront of new technology. The pads from Atlas were a little over $23 each for that same size, so about $180 to cover both shutters and they will be here in about 3 business days, just like clockwork. A little more expensive, but the extra $40 is well worth it to me to have "no hassle" and worry-free transactions. It also doesn't hurt to show a company I have a sense of loyalty because they are so reliable, you never know, I might need to purchase another greenhouse someday.
The temps have not been too bad lately. Outside ambient temp has been hanging out in the mid 80's. Air temp inside the greenhouse in the mid 90's with all of the fans running and whatever good the DIY evap pad may (or may not) be doing.The water temp in the first tank has been in the low 80's at it's peak. The tank water gets down to around 77 at night but the outside air temp has been getting down around the mid 50's at night, so the furnace has to run a little just to knock the chill out of the air and keep the night time temp drop within reason.
Today it was 87 F outside, 96 F inside, and water temp at 2 pm just a hair over 80 F. That is with about 43 % humidity, so the fans are helping with evap from the tank. I also think that the airlifts are helping a little also. With the blower on the floor, theoretically, it would be sucking in the coolest air possible and since it is not overloaded anymore, the output air is MUCH cooler as well. Just the simple fact that air is bubbling through the tank is sure to help the evap rate, plus making lots of ripples and waves will help to increase the surface area and help a little more.
I have removed two of the layers of screen over the first tank so there is only one layer remaining.
Nothing like good ol' sunshine.
Lux reading. I bought this meter before the greenhouse construction ever started. I figured even if I never built the greenhouse, the meter would come in handy for my display tanks when acclimating new corals. A 250 W MH bulb will measure about 20 Klux if the meter is approximately 1 foot away from the light. Remember, this is in September with a 30% shade cloth.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
There are some new corals in that first tank. All of the Ricordea from my private tank have gone in and I have even sliced up some of them. The little plastic viewing tray has become kind of hazy so I must apologize for the picture quality.
Here are some greens. These haven't been cut because they just didn't look like they were ready. Some of them had suffered some physical trauma when removing them from the aquarium, and a couple haven't quite opened up like I think they should. I tried to put a little water in the viewing tray to clear up the photo, but some ripples were present and made the pic look wavy.
These were cut Saturday, 9-3-05. The healing process is a miracle to see under the sun.
Some oranges. These were all also cut 9-3-05. One of them was a little pale and I probably shouldn't have cut it, but both halves are already healing and recovering.
Blues. These are some beautiful Ricordea. The picture is sort of crappy, but they have a purple base tissue, blue tipped tentacles and pink mouths. The blue looks almost green under the natural sunlight, but they are indeed blue. This first pic are the ones that were not cut. They were smaller ones from my tank that aren't fully colored or developed yet.
All of these were also cut 9-3-05.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
The second tank has been drilled for it's overflow, bulkhead installed and will get a wet test today.
Here are some greens. These haven't been cut because they just didn't look like they were ready. Some of them had suffered some physical trauma when removing them from the aquarium, and a couple haven't quite opened up like I think they should. I tried to put a little water in the viewing tray to clear up the photo, but some ripples were present and made the pic look wavy.
These were cut Saturday, 9-3-05. The healing process is a miracle to see under the sun.
Some oranges. These were all also cut 9-3-05. One of them was a little pale and I probably shouldn't have cut it, but both halves are already healing and recovering.
Blues. These are some beautiful Ricordea. The picture is sort of crappy, but they have a purple base tissue, blue tipped tentacles and pink mouths. The blue looks almost green under the natural sunlight, but they are indeed blue. This first pic are the ones that were not cut. They were smaller ones from my tank that aren't fully colored or developed yet.
All of these were also cut 9-3-05.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
The second tank has been drilled for it's overflow, bulkhead installed and will get a wet test today.
