jasonrp104
New member
Because you never vacuumed it. Of course it would be full of crap. It wasn't deep enough to serve any purpose other that collect garbage and it was never cleaned
Lets see them DSB tanks!!!!
- Thread starter Alysiak00
- Start date
Because you never vacuumed it. Of course it would be full of crap. It wasn't deep enough to serve any purpose other that collect garbage and it was never cleaned
, and I couldn't be happier!
Froggy
Reef "Hobbyist"...right!?
I had a DSB in my old 75 for 7 years, about 5". The sand was sugar sized grains. It seemed to do relatively well. I did nothing to maintain it other than occasionally vaccuuming the upper 1/2 inch or so every few months. Over time it seemed to get really dirty. I may have overextended it's lifespan at 7 years and the life in the sand may have been reduced. It did still look to be full of brisstle and spaghetti worms when I tore it down to upgrade to my current 120.
In the 120, I decided to go with a shallow 1" sand bed using coarser sand grain ( special grade reef sand ). I am happier with shallow bed personally. I syphon the sand weekly during water changes and stir/agitate the bed mid week. I feel the bed will last indefinitely with this approach.
It is important to use the proper sand grain size appropriate to the depth you are trying to achieve. I am sure my DSB could have lasted longer if I maintained/replaced/recharged it with critters as reccommended. The shallow bed is easier for me to maintain without worry. JMO
In the 120, I decided to go with a shallow 1" sand bed using coarser sand grain ( special grade reef sand ). I am happier with shallow bed personally. I syphon the sand weekly during water changes and stir/agitate the bed mid week. I feel the bed will last indefinitely with this approach.
It is important to use the proper sand grain size appropriate to the depth you are trying to achieve. I am sure my DSB could have lasted longer if I maintained/replaced/recharged it with critters as reccommended. The shallow bed is easier for me to maintain without worry. JMO
Froggy
Reef "Hobbyist"...right!?
If the majority of your sand bed is made up of coarse sand grains you would be better served to use a shallow bed and syphon it regularly IMO. DSB's should be constructed with fine grained sand. If you would like to use a DSB, as there are many effective ways to run a tank, do some more reading and research on he subject. To run a DSB tank and to keep from failing with the method, you need to know how to properly set it up, establish it, and maintain it. Without proper care, a DSB is destined to fail. The DSB horror stories are usually a result of a DSB that was not properly set up or maintained.
usefulidiot213
Bryan H.
I had a DSB for about 3 years on an old 100 gal. Never had any issues with it, but never really like the look of it. I don't like the look of BB at all. Looks too artificial to me. My happy place is a 1"-2" sand bed with a sand sifting goby to keep it looking clean..
serval
New member
I am a beginner and my reef tank has been up 15 months now. I have a relatively deep sand bed in the DT (2-5" going from front to back) that I baster-stir every week at water change, letting the crud just go down the overflow before changing the water. Then, there is also a small remote DSB in the sump. I just leave that alone, sometimes stirring the top layer. I don't even know if it does much to tell you the truth. I can take photos if you'd like. Since I keep animals that like to burrow and/or sleep in the sand (pistol shrimp, gobies, wrasses), I need the sand. Also, I have lots of worms, isopods and mysis shrimp that patrol and/or live in the sand. I have not noticed any problems yet! But, then some of you talk of crashes happening in 5 years or so. Should I be worried? I like the look of the sand aesthetically and my animals like it for other reasons. 
Hi Outy
Could you eleborate on how you do maintenance on your sand bed? What constitutes giving it some love every 5 years?
Secondly I would like to know what, if any, supplements you dose to compensate for doing no water changes at all.
thanks for your answers.
DSB's were trendy 10-15 years ago and I think if done right can really work. I am not sure about upkeep in the long run because I torn down my DSB tank after 4 years of operation (no crashing).
Not based on any scientific evidence but it makes sense to me to start a new DSB at some point in time. It worked the best in the first year of operation and there are a lot of people that removed them and saw improvements in their tanks.
My next big tank I would go BB and have a fuge with a DSB that gets changed out every two years. In order to avoid a crash I would setup a new DSB in a different fuge and run the two fuges simaltaneously slowly phasing out the old DSB. I think this could result in great long term success.
Not based on any scientific evidence but it makes sense to me to start a new DSB at some point in time. It worked the best in the first year of operation and there are a lot of people that removed them and saw improvements in their tanks.
My next big tank I would go BB and have a fuge with a DSB that gets changed out every two years. In order to avoid a crash I would setup a new DSB in a different fuge and run the two fuges simaltaneously slowly phasing out the old DSB. I think this could result in great long term success.
In a perfect world people would differentiate between using sand as a benthic substrate from relying on it as a biological filter. It would also be great if people didn't overstock and overfeed their tanks while relying on a bed of sand to fix their problems. DSBs will never get the respect they deserve; skimmers and filters make things too easy.
outy
New member
Your shallow sand bed gave you problems because you didnt know any better, you needed to maintain it and failed to do so.
My last tank made it 4 years without a waterchange and there was no cyano or GHA after 3 years. When I did change water the tank cleared up and ran great and was clean when I upgraded to a 215g with a DSB.
the first pic is year 3 with no water changes, second pic was last month
Ohio
New member
I would pick up a few books from your local library and decide after some extensive research. I did much research before setting up my tank and eventually decided to keep a DSB in my sumf/fuge only. Since setting it up I think that I am going to do away with the DSB in my sump as the tank is not large enough and does not have enough flow to maintain the DSB(from additional research). I believe that the DSB can be very beneficial but you need to do everything to perfection, if not there is always the risk to the tank inhabitants. One thing I can tell you for sure, based on my research, is that the substrate needs to either be less than 1 1/2in or between 4in and 6in(for DSB). Anything in between could produce toxic conditions as the sand is too deep for oxygen flow and not deep enough to provide the benefits of a DSB.
This thread has a lot of good information: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1652103
DSB's that's all I ever had!!!
DSB's that's all I ever had!!!
Maybe it's just me, but when I get into something, I throw myself into into it completely 100% committed. I read the book by Dr. Ron Shimek "Sand Bed Secrets, The Common-Sense Way to Biological Filtration" (which I highly recommend if you are doing a DSB tank)at least 6 times before I started my first DSB tank. I absolutely love it. The thing with DSB's you need to use the right size sand, what they call oolitic sand. Which, sand the same size as a sugar granule, is the ideal size for this application. I pack mine fairly compact with my hand when I start my tanks. After a while you will get all kinds of critters moving around in the sand and rocks. You will get some discoloration, purples, greens, maroons below the sand line, which is a good thing. It means you are doing something right. The grain size is more important for the critters living in the sand the filtration itself. The critters and the algae that live in the sand participate and provide the necessary breakdown of all the detritus and left over food from feedings and waste of the fish in the tank.
Good Luck!
DSB's that's all I ever had!!!
Maybe it's just me, but when I get into something, I throw myself into into it completely 100% committed. I read the book by Dr. Ron Shimek "Sand Bed Secrets, The Common-Sense Way to Biological Filtration" (which I highly recommend if you are doing a DSB tank)at least 6 times before I started my first DSB tank. I absolutely love it. The thing with DSB's you need to use the right size sand, what they call oolitic sand. Which, sand the same size as a sugar granule, is the ideal size for this application. I pack mine fairly compact with my hand when I start my tanks. After a while you will get all kinds of critters moving around in the sand and rocks. You will get some discoloration, purples, greens, maroons below the sand line, which is a good thing. It means you are doing something right. The grain size is more important for the critters living in the sand the filtration itself. The critters and the algae that live in the sand participate and provide the necessary breakdown of all the detritus and left over food from feedings and waste of the fish in the tank.
Good Luck!
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No, It won't solidfy. Due to the fact it has a ton of micro critters in the sand. These will constantly be turning the sand along with any hermits and/or snails you have in there.
I am sure there are still some people running plenums. Pretty old school though.
nuccadoc
Member
I ran a plenum in my 55 for about 5 yrs after reading about them in MFM back in the late 90's. I never had a problem with nitrates or phosphates. Keeping SPS's would be difficult due to the amount of flow required and the possibility of disturbing the bed. My only complaint was the esthetics. The sand will turn brown as the filter ages so putting a piece of moulding along the bottom of the tank would hide this.
I recently read an article comparing DSB's and plenums and they performed the same. Granted they were not set up for a long time it was an interesting read.
I would contact Leroy at Garf.org. He has been running plenums/DSB's for a long time and seems to have great success with them. They may be old school but they work if set up and maintained properly.
Scott
I recently read an article comparing DSB's and plenums and they performed the same. Granted they were not set up for a long time it was an interesting read.
I would contact Leroy at Garf.org. He has been running plenums/DSB's for a long time and seems to have great success with them. They may be old school but they work if set up and maintained properly.
Scott
speedo2wet
Sharks!!!!
I'll get a pic tomorrow. my tank has been up for 8 years now and I have a 4" sand bed with no problems. after the first year of stirring the sand I stopped. Now I never touch it. The whole Berlin system kinda just happened over the years as I kept taking more and more filtration things away. I read somewhere that the bed should be 3" and no more than 4". I did how ever keep throwning more and more snails and crabs in the tank. THe other thing I did was use real natural Beach ocean sand, now you will have to fight a constant algae bloom for a few months until the sand is cleaned naturally (the reason I was sturring the sand) then I kept adding more.
speedo2wet
Sharks!!!!
OK sorry about that - little big.
Here it is. 75 gallon, 4" sandbed. Tanks been up and running for 8 years now. You can see the corals just keep growning. I'm actually getting ready to move the tank to a 100 gallon soon.
Hope everyone like.
ritter6788
Say no to clove polyps
Now that's a different tank. I'm trying to make out what all is in there. Looks like a frogspawn in the middle, 2 clowns, a gorgonian, a Coke bottle with a SPS growing out of it and I can't make out what the rest of that is growing all over the rest, (xenia?) or the white whatever growing on the front glass. Oh, I just noticed maybe a monti cap and some other sps in the top middle...do tell more. 
And please resize the pic so I can see it all in one view.
And please resize the pic so I can see it all in one view.
speedo2wet
Sharks!!!!
ritter6788 - thanks. This is my first attempt at a reef tank and I ended up in the end using The Berlin Method. I started with Beach sand and worked my way up to the 4" sand bed with florida crush coral and what ever else I could get my hands on.
Corals: coke bottle with a Green Bali slimmer, Gorgonian, Frogspawn, Mushrooms, Some brown sps in the back, Larry jackson, and there two types of Montipora (the big white things on the glass are the monti's), Theres two types of Xenia - pulsating (which is in the back) and all the rest is long tenticle xenia. The long tenticle is a hit or miss if your system takes it, i guess since my dad and brother in law are unable to grow it but I think it needs the high intensity light.
Fish: Maroon clown and a smaller oscilarios clown, blue damsel and a 3 striped damsel, there is a large red serpant starfish in the back some where.
The long tenticle xenia grows so rapid that every few months I scrape it off the glass and have to throw some away.
Next week we will be moving everyone into a 112 gallon acrylic tank.
Corals: coke bottle with a Green Bali slimmer, Gorgonian, Frogspawn, Mushrooms, Some brown sps in the back, Larry jackson, and there two types of Montipora (the big white things on the glass are the monti's), Theres two types of Xenia - pulsating (which is in the back) and all the rest is long tenticle xenia. The long tenticle is a hit or miss if your system takes it, i guess since my dad and brother in law are unable to grow it but I think it needs the high intensity light.
Fish: Maroon clown and a smaller oscilarios clown, blue damsel and a 3 striped damsel, there is a large red serpant starfish in the back some where.
The long tenticle xenia grows so rapid that every few months I scrape it off the glass and have to throw some away.
Next week we will be moving everyone into a 112 gallon acrylic tank.
