G_Sanab922
New member
Glad this meeting happened. Getting some good interesting info out of it. Too bad I couldn't go.
Lets share what you got out of last nights meeting with FWC, and DACS
- Thread starter AquamanE
- Start date
mrx66699
New member
Yes get a license and have documentation as to its origin. Pay your taxes. Its really that simple.
Again its that simple get a license, document origins, pay your taxes. Whats it matter the size of your business. Your acting like you should only pay the same in taxes or licenses fees as someone that sells one coral a year. Get real! Taxes are based on sales already....sell more pay more. And they already do regulate the sale of fish. ITS CALLED BUSINESS.......
Again here we are just trying to cause controversy. Rene its not anyone in particular. Do you know what the fees are for every different city that you run a red light in and get a red light camera ticket? NO NEITHER DO I. But I do know its against the regulations and I need to come to a complete stop at a red light. Again ....Get a license, keep your documentation, and pay your taxes.
Again more unneeded controversy.....if they give you a ticket because you mislabeled something in your documentations then complain about it. But your complaining about it before its even a question....this is what happens when you put the cart before the horse....
If you honestly think 99% of frags are because people need to TRIM back LMAO. You and I both know 99% are for some sort of a profit whether it be monetary or a different species instead of paying cash for it......The reason this hobby is taking such a bad rap and is where it is today is because of the so called hobbyist not the lobbyist...... We as a community need to wake up and realize this isnt going to be around for long at the rate our oceans are being pillaged. Its just a fact that supply isn't keeping up with demand. Can aquaculture help prolong this? Of course in some manner im sure. But business is business and frags FS are for 1 thing and 1 thing only. Otherwise people would ONLY just give them away 100% of the time!!!!!!!
If everyone is just trimming back a tank Rene then how come they don't just give free frags to everyone and we will all do the same. You give me one I will give you one and we won't worry about its value one way or the other we will just trim and share.
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G_Sanab922
New member
Well it does seem pretty simple and his answer is pretty much the answer to most of it. Just getting ahead of yourself there. The extra questions are for after. It still doesn't change that you need proper docs and licensing.
In a way, yes it was fairly simple, even if not satisfactory for many. If you growing and selling marine life (fish, corals, and plants), the DAC requires one to have an aquaculture permit. If you are selling or trading to a store or wholesaler, that's the end of it...at least as far as the DAC and FWS are concerned. If you are selling or trading (remember state law also considers trading to be selling) direct to hobbyist (aka retail customer), the FWC also requires one to have a salt water products license. Keep in mind, this does not address any state or county business license requirements that might exist if those entities wanted to look closer...
Basically it amounts to, if you want to frag, grow fish, and plants and sell to fellow hobbyist, $175 worth of licensing is needed to satisfy both DAC and FWC...not financial viable for only selling a handful of overgrowth per year.
Basically it amounts to, if you want to frag, grow fish, and plants and sell to fellow hobbyist, $175 worth of licensing is needed to satisfy both DAC and FWC...not financial viable for only selling a handful of overgrowth per year.
knukles55
New member
so would it make sense for every retailer selling fish tanks in general should include the paper work and information and maybe even include the license fees about selling live animals out of a fish tank in general? not saying this would solve any problems because theres alternate ways to keep fish and coral not involving a fish tank like bins bought from home depot or lowes if you can catch my drift.
They stated renewal is June 1 annually.
Also, I know that I certainly am not one but I also think that anyone that labels them self as an expert needs to have proof of such. I would like everyone to send me their thesis papers.
Based on the performances, I'm sure those also were not the residing presidents of their organizations but rather who they could spare.
I, also, believe that everyone here is extremely blowing this out of proportion for no reason. Very few of you would be considered retail let alone commercial in either respect.
And I'm sure that somewhere along the lines of their rules for aquaculture that what you're growing needed to be proven that it's solely being grown for distribution.
Honestly, you're all making my head hurt.
Also, I know that I certainly am not one but I also think that anyone that labels them self as an expert needs to have proof of such. I would like everyone to send me their thesis papers.
Based on the performances, I'm sure those also were not the residing presidents of their organizations but rather who they could spare.
I, also, believe that everyone here is extremely blowing this out of proportion for no reason. Very few of you would be considered retail let alone commercial in either respect.
And I'm sure that somewhere along the lines of their rules for aquaculture that what you're growing needed to be proven that it's solely being grown for distribution.
Honestly, you're all making my head hurt.
SaltyGoat
New member
Here is the link to the FWC Saltwater Products License.
http://myfwc.com/license/saltwater/commercial-fishing/#spl
The PDF requires Legal size paper to print it out
http://myfwc.com/license/saltwater/commercial-fishing/#spl
The PDF requires Legal size paper to print it out
SaltyGoat
New member
Here is what I understood:
First, neither DOC or FWC put these rules in place with the hobbyist in mind. There seems to be a lot of overlapping and sometimes contradictory information put out by both agencies however, that will not keep them from enforcing their current rules.
Division of Aquaculture
If you are going to give away a frag...no problem.
If you are going to trade or sell you need to have an Aquaculture License
FWC
If you are going to sell any coral or move about anywhere in the state, you need to have a receipt to show an officer if you are stopped (Please refer to the last paragraph copied below).
-If you are on your boat, you better have the proper license and all your catch be legal (size, bag limit, etc.).
-If you just bought/received a coral, you will need a receipt stating the seller and species of the coral and any CITES certificates if the coral is on the protected/endangered list.
On question I do have is from the FWC site. There are three types of Saltwater Product Licenses See the information copied below). As a hobbyist, which would I need? It seems to be a mix of two of the three.
Saltwater Wholesale Dealer License (WD)
A Saltwater Wholesale Dealer license is required to purchase saltwater products from persons holding an SPL or another licensed from other licensed wholesale dealer and to sell saltwater products to any licensed wholesale dealer, retail dealer or restaurant. Wholesale dealers must report purchases to the Commission when products are landed or sold for the first time.
Retail Central License (RC)
Retail Saltwater Products Dealer licenseis required to sell any saltwater products to the end consumer. A retail dealer may purchase only from a wholesale dealer. The RC is not required when products are prepared for consumption or take-out under a license issued by the Division of Hotels and Restaurants.
Retail Other License (RO)
All retail locations are required to be licensed to retail saltwater products. Any additional retail location after the first Retail Central location will be licensed as a “Retail Other”. All the same rules and regulations that apply to the Retail Central license also apply to the Retail Other license.
Transporting or Importing Saltwater Products
A person transporting saltwater products in this state, regardless of destination, must maintain possession of invoices, bills of lading or other similar documentation showing the number of packages, boxes or containers and the number of pounds of each species and the name, physical address and the Florida wholesale dealer number of the dealer of origin.
To import and sell saltwater products (including aquaria, fish, shrimp, crabs, etc.) you will need a Saltwater Wholesale Dealers license.
First, neither DOC or FWC put these rules in place with the hobbyist in mind. There seems to be a lot of overlapping and sometimes contradictory information put out by both agencies however, that will not keep them from enforcing their current rules.
Division of Aquaculture
If you are going to give away a frag...no problem.
If you are going to trade or sell you need to have an Aquaculture License
FWC
If you are going to sell any coral or move about anywhere in the state, you need to have a receipt to show an officer if you are stopped (Please refer to the last paragraph copied below).
-If you are on your boat, you better have the proper license and all your catch be legal (size, bag limit, etc.).
-If you just bought/received a coral, you will need a receipt stating the seller and species of the coral and any CITES certificates if the coral is on the protected/endangered list.
On question I do have is from the FWC site. There are three types of Saltwater Product Licenses See the information copied below). As a hobbyist, which would I need? It seems to be a mix of two of the three.
Saltwater Wholesale Dealer License (WD)
A Saltwater Wholesale Dealer license is required to purchase saltwater products from persons holding an SPL or another licensed from other licensed wholesale dealer and to sell saltwater products to any licensed wholesale dealer, retail dealer or restaurant. Wholesale dealers must report purchases to the Commission when products are landed or sold for the first time.
Retail Central License (RC)
Retail Saltwater Products Dealer licenseis required to sell any saltwater products to the end consumer. A retail dealer may purchase only from a wholesale dealer. The RC is not required when products are prepared for consumption or take-out under a license issued by the Division of Hotels and Restaurants.
Retail Other License (RO)
All retail locations are required to be licensed to retail saltwater products. Any additional retail location after the first Retail Central location will be licensed as a “Retail Other”. All the same rules and regulations that apply to the Retail Central license also apply to the Retail Other license.
Transporting or Importing Saltwater Products
A person transporting saltwater products in this state, regardless of destination, must maintain possession of invoices, bills of lading or other similar documentation showing the number of packages, boxes or containers and the number of pounds of each species and the name, physical address and the Florida wholesale dealer number of the dealer of origin.
To import and sell saltwater products (including aquaria, fish, shrimp, crabs, etc.) you will need a Saltwater Wholesale Dealers license.
AquamanE
Active member
To answer the question about DOCUMENTATION, since most of us have no receipts or know the real name of corals the response was (as i understood it):
They said: Start from scratch. Do an inventory of your livestock. They know most of us never kept paperwork, but going forward might be asked. Now you have a baseline.
If you frag colony A, document it.. My example would be Frag A1, A2, A3 etc... Document where that frag went: Johnny Q got frag A2.
If you buy a frag from the store, they dont know the name, the response was, get the receipt, document where you got it from, and give it a name. Simply writing it on the receipt is acceptable. This would allow them to trace an "unacceptable specimen" to the retailer. Keeps you out of trouble.
If and when you get a AQ certificate, and you sell/trade, give folks you sell/trade with a receipt with your AQ Certificate # on it. This again covers you.
Not very difficult unless you do a huge volume which the majority of us on here dont.
Also mentioned, and i think this is where this all bottlenecks--Frag swaps. Normally no receipts!!!! My solution would be: write down the sellers name, the coral name, and add it to your inventory. You are doing your part, if the AQ certified company doesnt/wont give you a receipt, thats the reason you use. Or you dont buy from them.
This is what i understood about the documentation part...not unreasonable or difficult to do. They are basically creating a chain of custody. A very common process in many fields, ie..aviation, pharmaceutical, pathology specimens etc....
They said: Start from scratch. Do an inventory of your livestock. They know most of us never kept paperwork, but going forward might be asked. Now you have a baseline.
If you frag colony A, document it.. My example would be Frag A1, A2, A3 etc... Document where that frag went: Johnny Q got frag A2.
If you buy a frag from the store, they dont know the name, the response was, get the receipt, document where you got it from, and give it a name. Simply writing it on the receipt is acceptable. This would allow them to trace an "unacceptable specimen" to the retailer. Keeps you out of trouble.
If and when you get a AQ certificate, and you sell/trade, give folks you sell/trade with a receipt with your AQ Certificate # on it. This again covers you.
Not very difficult unless you do a huge volume which the majority of us on here dont.
Also mentioned, and i think this is where this all bottlenecks--Frag swaps. Normally no receipts!!!! My solution would be: write down the sellers name, the coral name, and add it to your inventory. You are doing your part, if the AQ certified company doesnt/wont give you a receipt, thats the reason you use. Or you dont buy from them.
This is what i understood about the documentation part...not unreasonable or difficult to do. They are basically creating a chain of custody. A very common process in many fields, ie..aviation, pharmaceutical, pathology specimens etc....
doggydoc
New member
Lets share what you got out of last nights meeting with FWC, and DACS
Agree 100%
Business is business. You sell stuff, get your licenses in order.
On another note....free frags for all....[emoji106][emoji12] I don't sell stuff... I just give it away.
Agree 100%
Business is business. You sell stuff, get your licenses in order.
On another note....free frags for all....[emoji106][emoji12] I don't sell stuff... I just give it away.
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nivram
New member
Sorry it took so long. Those of you that were interested in our speakers' contact info. Here it is.
Mason Smith, FWC - Mason.Smith@MyFWC.com
Serina Rocco, DAC - Serina.Rocco@FreshFromFlorida.com
Mason Smith, FWC - Mason.Smith@MyFWC.com
Serina Rocco, DAC - Serina.Rocco@FreshFromFlorida.com
AquamanE
Active member
Marvin- Any chance we can get the power point presentations to share? I know we video taped and it will be posted on our members only web site, but the camera was pointed to the speaker. A lot of info was on the slides of their respective presentations that i feel will help. :idea:
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