thriceanangel
New member
I think that it might not have to be in every tank, but I think that it IS in all but a few.
Lets talk about Ich
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
sunfish11
Premium Member
Paul B, i am glad I found this post. This has been bothering me for some time. I actually had this written up and PM'd it to a couple of respectable reefers because I didn't want to post and get flamed or give someone the idea that they shouldn't quarantine. I have been flamed in the past for suggesting that someone look to other issues with their tank if they have a ich problem. My list of fish is in my sig. They are not 18 years old but I think they will be somday 
Here is what I had written before I saw this post:
I see that everyone advises to quarantine and leave tanks fallow for 6-8 weeks to remove ich from a tank. I have 15 fish in my 210 that I have not quarantined and have never had ich. I have 4 fish in my 24 that had no quarantine and no ich. I lost two fish over the course of nearly 3 years that refused to eat and slowly died despite all my efforts, and freezer full of food. (Lesson learned about watching fish eat before buying them). I also had a couple carpet surfers, but I have never had one get ich. I have a clown ( months at the point of illness) that jumped in the overflow and we didn't find him for a couple of days and got really stressed out and developed some kind parasite (not ich very fine powdery dots, prob velvet) that wound up rubbing his whole tail off and laying on the bottom of the tank. I thought he was a gonner, but I was able to save this fish by careful treatment in a hospital tank. No other fish were infected.
5-6 months ago I added a fish that did have some ich (very little), but once in the tank it quickly went away and no other fish has ever shown a sign of the parasite. I know it was risky but I guess I was testing my theory. I have 3 tangs that never have shown a spot of ich.
I do carefully pick out my fish and inspect them all daily for signs of illness.
I have added these fish very slowly and there are generally months between additions.
I guess there are a couple of conculsions that I could draw from this experience.
A. Healthy fish don't get ich/Possible immunity. Exposure combined with health creates some immunity?
B. Some condition in the tank is inhospitable to ich? Ich predator or some other environmental factor.
C. So many fish in QT show signs of illness because of the stressful nature of quarantine. Ich is stress related and sign of bigger issues either environmental or nutritional in a system. I guess this goes back to theory A.
D. Diet has something to do with ich? Garlic?
E. Blind Dumb Stupid Luck and tonight I will return home to find all my fish covered in ich.
F. There is a magic bullet that we don't know about. Luck of the draw kind of hitchhiker???
I do not have ozone.
I feed vitamins and an extremely varied diet. I do add garlic sometimes. All fish are fat and have great coloration. I have a pair of cleaner shrimp that I have seen new fish visit. The established fish do not make appointments with the cleaners.
What about the folks that let their tanks go fallow and then get ich again. I have read posts where they are told that they must have introduced it on rock or some such item added to the tank. Can this parasite go dormant in one of it's stages? If not how can we be 100% sure this isn't the case?
Thanks and I appreciate any thoughts you might have,
Lisa
Here is what I had written before I saw this post:
I see that everyone advises to quarantine and leave tanks fallow for 6-8 weeks to remove ich from a tank. I have 15 fish in my 210 that I have not quarantined and have never had ich. I have 4 fish in my 24 that had no quarantine and no ich. I lost two fish over the course of nearly 3 years that refused to eat and slowly died despite all my efforts, and freezer full of food. (Lesson learned about watching fish eat before buying them). I also had a couple carpet surfers, but I have never had one get ich. I have a clown ( months at the point of illness) that jumped in the overflow and we didn't find him for a couple of days and got really stressed out and developed some kind parasite (not ich very fine powdery dots, prob velvet) that wound up rubbing his whole tail off and laying on the bottom of the tank. I thought he was a gonner, but I was able to save this fish by careful treatment in a hospital tank. No other fish were infected.
5-6 months ago I added a fish that did have some ich (very little), but once in the tank it quickly went away and no other fish has ever shown a sign of the parasite. I know it was risky but I guess I was testing my theory. I have 3 tangs that never have shown a spot of ich.
I do carefully pick out my fish and inspect them all daily for signs of illness.
I have added these fish very slowly and there are generally months between additions.
I guess there are a couple of conculsions that I could draw from this experience.
A. Healthy fish don't get ich/Possible immunity. Exposure combined with health creates some immunity?
B. Some condition in the tank is inhospitable to ich? Ich predator or some other environmental factor.
C. So many fish in QT show signs of illness because of the stressful nature of quarantine. Ich is stress related and sign of bigger issues either environmental or nutritional in a system. I guess this goes back to theory A.
D. Diet has something to do with ich? Garlic?
E. Blind Dumb Stupid Luck and tonight I will return home to find all my fish covered in ich.
F. There is a magic bullet that we don't know about. Luck of the draw kind of hitchhiker???
I do not have ozone.
I feed vitamins and an extremely varied diet. I do add garlic sometimes. All fish are fat and have great coloration. I have a pair of cleaner shrimp that I have seen new fish visit. The established fish do not make appointments with the cleaners.
What about the folks that let their tanks go fallow and then get ich again. I have read posts where they are told that they must have introduced it on rock or some such item added to the tank. Can this parasite go dormant in one of it's stages? If not how can we be 100% sure this isn't the case?
Thanks and I appreciate any thoughts you might have,
Lisa
Paul B
Premium Member
Sunfish11 or better yet, Lisa, I am not sure if there is a question in there but here are my thoughts and I do not like to voice my opinion on ich too much because although I will not get flamed I do get some flack on other forums.
Many people know the life cycle of ich, it has been studied to death and the salt hobby has been around for 37 years now. I myself have also had salt for 37 years and I know a little about ich. For some reason, my fish also do not (usually) get ich. I don't know why and neither does anyone else including so called experts. I know some of the "experts" in this hobby and some have come to my home to see my tank. According to many people ich can't live in your tank and be benign. I have to disagree. Before I start this I have to say that you should quarantine, most people's tanks are not like mine or Lisa's.
For the first ten years my tank was an ich menagerie and I just had to mention ich and I was there with the copper. Every new fish I introduced brought new ich infections into my tank. There was continous copper in my water. Then for some reason the ich was not a problem. I really don't know if it is the health of the fish due to their varied diet, or if there is something in my water that prevents ich or if Saint Anthony bestowed some kind of blessing on me but whatever it is, I am very happy. For 25 years my reef has been ich free without quarantine and with almost weekly additions of NSW and plants, snails, fish, and inverts from the sea. Again, don't do this, you will probably lose all of your fish. Some tanks for some odd reason do not get it and some tanks, no matter what you do will succumb to it.
As I said, a few weeks ago my power went off with my heat and my reef went down to 60 degrees. Many of my fish got ich. I cured them in some copper for a few days and returned them to the reef where I knew there was ich. I diden't want to but they would not eat in quarantine especailly the 7" moorish Idol.
It has been about three weeks now and there is no sign of ich.
I had a problem because of something else, a family emergency that kept me away for a few days and I lost a bunch of fish, but not due to ich. Anyway, about two weeks I bought a young hippo tang. I purposely got a hippo because I know their suceptability to ich and I figured if anything would get it, he would. So far he did not. I know ich is in there. Am I an ich expert? No, but I think I have been dealing with it longer than anyone else here so I am almost an expert :eek1: (I hated to say that) Believe me, I know ich. My tank has never been without fish in 36 years. My theory however weak it is, is that for some reason the paracite goes through it's life cycle hapilly reproducing on the fish but does not get to epidemic proportions. I know it is there because my fish always get it when they are weak from either the temp going down 25 degrees, old age or whenever the fish is close to death for whatever reason.
Also there is still a 12 year old fire clown, and two gobies in my reef that I could not catch and they never got infected.
I don't know if I answered your question but I do know that many people will disagree with me. Two years ago to test my theory I offered anyone to bring me a fish infected with ich and I would put it in my reef to see what would happen. No one did and the offer is no longer valid but that is how sure I am that there is something going on that we don't understand.
Again, don't do this. Someday we will know why this is so but for now, we don't.
Have a great Ich free day, and don't do what I do.
Paul
Many people know the life cycle of ich, it has been studied to death and the salt hobby has been around for 37 years now. I myself have also had salt for 37 years and I know a little about ich. For some reason, my fish also do not (usually) get ich. I don't know why and neither does anyone else including so called experts. I know some of the "experts" in this hobby and some have come to my home to see my tank. According to many people ich can't live in your tank and be benign. I have to disagree. Before I start this I have to say that you should quarantine, most people's tanks are not like mine or Lisa's.
For the first ten years my tank was an ich menagerie and I just had to mention ich and I was there with the copper. Every new fish I introduced brought new ich infections into my tank. There was continous copper in my water. Then for some reason the ich was not a problem. I really don't know if it is the health of the fish due to their varied diet, or if there is something in my water that prevents ich or if Saint Anthony bestowed some kind of blessing on me but whatever it is, I am very happy. For 25 years my reef has been ich free without quarantine and with almost weekly additions of NSW and plants, snails, fish, and inverts from the sea. Again, don't do this, you will probably lose all of your fish. Some tanks for some odd reason do not get it and some tanks, no matter what you do will succumb to it.
As I said, a few weeks ago my power went off with my heat and my reef went down to 60 degrees. Many of my fish got ich. I cured them in some copper for a few days and returned them to the reef where I knew there was ich. I diden't want to but they would not eat in quarantine especailly the 7" moorish Idol.
It has been about three weeks now and there is no sign of ich.
I had a problem because of something else, a family emergency that kept me away for a few days and I lost a bunch of fish, but not due to ich. Anyway, about two weeks I bought a young hippo tang. I purposely got a hippo because I know their suceptability to ich and I figured if anything would get it, he would. So far he did not. I know ich is in there. Am I an ich expert? No, but I think I have been dealing with it longer than anyone else here so I am almost an expert :eek1: (I hated to say that) Believe me, I know ich. My tank has never been without fish in 36 years. My theory however weak it is, is that for some reason the paracite goes through it's life cycle hapilly reproducing on the fish but does not get to epidemic proportions. I know it is there because my fish always get it when they are weak from either the temp going down 25 degrees, old age or whenever the fish is close to death for whatever reason.
Also there is still a 12 year old fire clown, and two gobies in my reef that I could not catch and they never got infected.
I don't know if I answered your question but I do know that many people will disagree with me. Two years ago to test my theory I offered anyone to bring me a fish infected with ich and I would put it in my reef to see what would happen. No one did and the offer is no longer valid but that is how sure I am that there is something going on that we don't understand.
Again, don't do this. Someday we will know why this is so but for now, we don't.
Have a great Ich free day, and don't do what I do.
Paul
sunfish11
Premium Member
Good thoughts PaulB and thank you for the interesting insight. In spite of all the study Ich does seem to be clear as mud. I have always instinctually known that if something bad happens to the tank and my fish become stressed, that I will see Ich happen. I know it is there. I put some in after all...Funny though, my other 24 gal tank has been set up for nearly 3 years and no ich there either although the blenny I put in was questionable looking (fine now). The tanks have had interchange of rock and coral, and a couple of fish. I am setting up another tank in the next month and I am going to keep everything completely separate just to see if anything is different with the new tank. All other husbandry practice, salt mix, feeding, lack of QT, etc will be the same. This one will be unskimmed, but so is my 24. I want to know what is going on with this? I also have another FOWLR tank in the works and I will do the same with it and avoid cross contamination.
Lisa
Lisa
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
Paul, I for one am very grateful for your posting this thread and for your honesty - so often people are too worried about being politically correct - Thanks 
- very good thread.
- very good thread.
Paul B
Premium Member
Marie, I am too old to worry about being politically correct. I say what I feel and it is what it is, but I am careful to keep telling especially newbees that all tanks are different and I lost many fish to ich especially when the salt hobby was new. We had no liquid copper and had to put twenty pennies to the gallon to add copper. Without test kits we lost probably as many fish to copper poisoning than we did to ich. After pennies we went to copper scouring pads. Same problem.
I once lost everything to ich and diden't have the cash to get new water so I treated everything with bleach. If you are interested how to do that, message me. I won't put it up here because too many people will be throwing Clorox in their tank, killing everything and blaming me :eek1:
Again, don't put bleach in your tank, don't put fish in there with ich, always quarantine, don't do anything that I do that sounds wierd :rolleye1:
Have a great day.
Paul
I once lost everything to ich and diden't have the cash to get new water so I treated everything with bleach. If you are interested how to do that, message me. I won't put it up here because too many people will be throwing Clorox in their tank, killing everything and blaming me :eek1:
Again, don't put bleach in your tank, don't put fish in there with ich, always quarantine, don't do anything that I do that sounds wierd :rolleye1:
Have a great day.
Paul
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