Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing

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I think I may have found an undesirable side effect of vodka dosing. I noticed that when I first started, my pair of cleaner shrimps stopped carrying eggs. In addition, my cleaners and harlequins all started acting strange. They would sit, with some legs touching the rock, some not. The cleaners would clean/pick at themselves a lot too. In recent times I lost both harlequins (the big female ending up sucked to the CL intake, half molted). This morning, a cleaner shrimp, sucked to the intake, half molted.

My theory is that bacteria growing on the relatively sedentary shrimps caused this.

Thoughts?
 
I think your shrimp are drunk.
nada.gif
 
Hey, that's my excuse for my big swallowtail angel jumping into the overflow this weekend :D
 
Hanhmeister mentioned fluctuating iodine (iodide/iodate) levels 2 pages back... and we always hear about how shrimp need proper levels to molt.

FWIW, I just put 1/4 tsp sugar in the sump... currently, my nitrate levels are somewhere between 40-80 (API and Salifert).
 
Could have been my Salifert test kit as well. Usually, if you are running out of iodine, its iodide first, then iodate. In my case, the iodate was 0, and iodide was fine... I dont know if this is even possible, so Im chalking it up to 'Salifert Error' at the moment.
 
I have dosed vodka about 3 weeks now- producing more skimate, but nitrates are still around 20- no results so far. Dawn
 
Dawn II, how much are you dosing? I assume you may be dosing too little for your system.

For my system, I have 60g total water volume and I have to dose at least 4.5mls to see a decrease in nitrate, simply because my export system is good.
 
Keep going Dawn. About the second month in I started to notice real improvements. I had neglected my tank for about a year - no water changes, just kalk top off. It turned into a caulerpa tank rather than an sps tank. At some point something just clicked so to speak and my tank is nearly devoid of the caulerpa, the sps have colored back up and the water is so clear I only run ozone now and then as a precautionary. My snails have spawned four times now. I notice other interesting organisms reproducing I hadn't before. The yellow and blue sponge have increased and they in themselves do a good job of filtering the water. I think like anything else in this hobby patience is key to carbon dosing. :)
 
I do aprox. 30 gal water change every week and a half. I started as per the dose recommendations in this thread ( I think the actual water cap. is prob. about 120 gallons) I dosed 5 ml- now up to 2 ml. for the past 7 days. I have tangs with hhle, and problems with slow reccession in corals, the longer I keep them. I have changed my skimmer and lighting. My par. are alk 9-10, CA 450, ph 8.3, PO4 not measureable.
 
Hey everyone I was combing through this thread and thought I would chime in on a few topics.

First, vodka is pretty pure ethanol, in regards to other alcohols such as whiskey, wine, or rum, though it may differ slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer. Vodka differs because it has all other flavoring agents (contaminants to our tanks) removed. Vodka is good for dosing a tank because it is run through carbon up to three times (triple distilled) and the final product you buy is water and ethanol (CH3CH2OH). This is why it has very little taste to it (and the women prefer it in their mixed drinks). Depending on the proof you will want to differ your dosing amounts. I think people are still investigating on the optimal dosing amount. Though there are threads that give you a good starting point. So increasing proof is only slightly decreasing the accuracy of which one is effectively measuring ethanol addition to the tank. The error comes in measuring. If you measure 8mL at 20 proof you will be more accurate than measuring 2ml at 80 proof.

Second, vodka will be found to work differently than sugar (sucrose is your table sugar of choice). Sucrose is composed of glucose and fructose, each consists of a six carbon ring that is hydrated for efficient energy release by breakdown through glycolysis/kreb cycle. This will most definitively stimulate growth of organisms that cannot efficiently convert ethanol to an energy source but may be beneficial in its own means.

Third, Ethanol has no defined pathway in our tanks yet, however, I would like to point our attention to three groups of organisms that stand out. Methanogenic bacteria such as Methanobacterium omelianskii are a great candidate, though not the only/major participant. As a saltwater growing organism Methanobacterium can cooperatively interact to reduce sulfates by H2S reduction from use of ethanol as a substrate with peak growth taking 4-5 days (a bi-product is acetate for the vinegar dosers). I am wiling to assume that this bacterium is found in ethanol treated tanks in higher numbers. The H2S reduction also should be noted as deep-sand beds (DSB) initially take in and eventually reduce sulfurs as well. This may explain coral coloration and improvement after using consistently for a few weeks, as coloration and growth has been noted in DSBs. The second group would be the syntrophic organisms such as Clostridium or Desulfivibrio that act in a dependent manner requiring a growth and production of H2, which would be a byproduct from M. omelianskii. These three could act co-operatively and synergistically to help reduce sulfur from the system.

Would this H2S production drop ORP readings in our reef ecosystem? If the released product is H2S then adding too much at once could do this. However, as dosing tolerance can be built up then there are further cultures in play here; nitrate reduction for one.
 
sorry I misread, thought you were doing 5mls a day and increased it to another 2mls, hence 7mls a day.

Ya increase it by about 0.5 mls a day till you see a decrease. That's what I did and it worked well for me.

Cheers
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11885889#post11885889 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Genetics
Hey everyone I was combing through this thread and thought I would chime in on a few topics.

First, vodka is pretty pure ethanol, in regards to other alcohols such as whiskey, wine, or rum, though it may differ slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer. Vodka differs because it has all other flavoring agents (contaminants to our tanks) removed. Vodka is good for dosing a tank because it is run through carbon up to three times (triple distilled) and the final product you buy is water and ethanol (CH3CH2OH). This is why it has very little taste to it (and the women prefer it in their mixed drinks). Depending on the proof you will want to differ your dosing amounts. I think people are still investigating on the optimal dosing amount. Though there are threads that give you a good starting point. So increasing proof is only slightly decreasing the accuracy of which one is effectively measuring ethanol addition to the tank. The error comes in measuring. If you measure 8mL at 20 proof you will be more accurate than measuring 2ml at 80 proof.

Second, vodka will be found to work differently than sugar (sucrose is your table sugar of choice). Sucrose is composed of glucose and fructose, each consists of a six carbon ring that is hydrated for efficient energy release by breakdown through glycolysis/kreb cycle. This will most definitively stimulate growth of organisms that cannot efficiently convert ethanol to an energy source but may be beneficial in its own means.

Third, Ethanol has no defined pathway in our tanks yet, however, I would like to point our attention to three groups of organisms that stand out. Methanogenic bacteria such as Methanobacterium omelianskii are a great candidate, though not the only/major participant. As a saltwater growing organism Methanobacterium can cooperatively interact to reduce sulfates by H2S reduction from use of ethanol as a substrate with peak growth taking 4-5 days (a bi-product is acetate for the vinegar dosers). I am wiling to assume that this bacterium is found in ethanol treated tanks in higher numbers. The H2S reduction also should be noted as deep-sand beds (DSB) initially take in and eventually reduce sulfurs as well. This may explain coral coloration and improvement after using consistently for a few weeks, as coloration and growth has been noted in DSBs. The second group would be the syntrophic organisms such as Clostridium or Desulfivibrio that act in a dependent manner requiring a growth and production of H2, which would be a byproduct from M. omelianskii. These three could act co-operatively and synergistically to help reduce sulfur from the system.

Would this H2S production drop ORP readings in our reef ecosystem? If the released product is H2S then adding too much at once could do this. However, as dosing tolerance can be built up then there are further cultures in play here; nitrate reduction for one.

Thanks for the post! Good stuff. What potential issues are there with sulfate reduction, SO4? Or is it H2S? As SO4 is one of the major moelcules in NSW, no issues? Are all methanobacterium sulfate reducers or are they able to utilize NO3?
 
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