Life Without a Sump?

[emoutz]

I've sick of my sump. It is constantly overflowing (itself or my main tank). No matter what I try, I cannot control the water levels in the tank and sump to avoid problems. I worry about it constantly. I'm thinking of getting rid of the sump or getting out of the hobby - but I like my tank. So my question is this, can a tank be run without a sump? Here is my setup -

I've got a 90 gallon mixed SPS and zoanthids. Very low fish bioload and plenty of flow from a vortech and a couple tunzes. My sump houses a refugium and a skimmer. I'd like to dump the refugium in its entirety and just let the tank run. Is it possible? Is it going to be a disaster?

I think the alternative is breaking down the tank, because I dont feel like worrying about the overflows anymore.

 

[happyface888]

I think its possible, I seen people with reciric skimmers and cpr hang on back refuges. I have a club member that has a 100g tank full of corals and no sump, just a calc reactor and a deltec hang on tank skimmer. He heard of others having a flooding problem so he never set up a sump.

 

[scarletknight06]

let me guess you have a HOB overflow (your tank is not drilled).

 

[foodstamp]

what type of overflow do u have?
also what return pump?

i dont have any experance with sumps but to help with a problem gotta know what gear ur running..

is it the tank or the sump over flowing. from your post it sounds like both? to me it seems like it would be one or the other. either the return pumps not doing its job or the overflow is not.

if your tank is overflowing then either
a: your pump is to big (ballvalve would slow it down)
b: overflow is to small ( see a
c: overflow losing siphon ( floteswitch to click off pump once tank gets too high)

if its your sump
a: take water level down there for it has room to hold the water untell the overflow cant suck anymore down
b: get a bigger sump

to answer your ? i have hurd "hurd" of ppl doing it with out a sump but from what i have read it takes a lot more maintence ( waterchanges, test ect.)

i have ran mine as a fish only with out a sump for about 6-8 months befor i moved now im just getting ready to set it up as a reef and adding a sump....

all be keeping a eye on this thead to see some answers i would hate to get my sump set up and have the problem u are

 

[emoutz]

Yep, I do have an HOB overflow. But seriously that is never the problem, yet. The biggest problem is a power failure or some other problem which takes out my return pump. The tank water then overflows the sump. But all it would take is a clog in my HOB overflow and my sump would overflow the tank.

I'm basically just tired of worrying about a flood. I've played with it for over a year and still have major problems on a regular basis.

 

[foodstamp]

do u have room for a small tank (10gallons) that u could run a 1" line from your sump (just above your water level) for when your power dose go out?

 

[scarletknight06]

the problem is your HOB and your undersized sump. You simply can't have a sump that cant account for the added volume that occurs during a power outtage. Thats just poor design/setup. Either go sumpless or get a bigger sump.

 

[SlowCobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10892128#post10892128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scarletknight06
the problem is your HOB and your undersized sump. You simply can't have a sump that cant account for the added volume that occurs during a power outtage. Thats just poor design/setup. Either go sumpless or get a bigger sump.

Exactly. Poor planning on your part is no reason to give up on the hobby.

You need to place the return plumbing high enough so that it only drains a few gallons back then the siphon breaks. You need to have enough room in your sump to handle the amount of drain back.

The pump in the sump needs to be positioned high enough to remain underwater but at a point that should the siphon on the HOB over-flow gets broken it will only pump a few gallons into the tanl.

 

[Runfrumu]

Trust me, Keep the sump, I've been running 2 months now without one, and I'm getting one this weekend. I've just has longer to plan, and to have things explained to me so hopefully I won't get any floods.

main problems with not having one is with the HOB skimmer, my water level is constantly changing due to evaporation and the skimmer cant work as effecient as it would with a constant water level, and the fact that I can get some macro in the tank to compete with with the algea that grows in the main tank.

That and mirco-bubbles.

 

[Runfrumu]

If you don't have room for a tank inside, just drill a hole in the floor and run some tubing outside, that way no matter how much overflows, it don't flood the house.

 

[sjm817]

If the sump is overflowing, it has nothing to do with the overflow. The return line(s) are too deep in the display, the sump level is too high, or both.

If the display overflows after a power restart, that could be an overflow problem, but that should never occur with a decent quality overflow that is properly set up.

I personally would not run a system without a sump. Setting up one one that is reliable is not that hard.

 

[cgib831]

echoing others, you gotta have a sump, and there is no doubt somehting is wrong. How big is the sump, and how high do you keep it normally? I have a drilled 90, and when i turn the pumps off, my 30g sump fills to about 2 inches to the top. never a problem. My 29 has a hang on back overflow, and it is impossible to flood that sump as well. If i dont keep my prefilter clean, the tank level rises, but ive had it for 2 years now. It needs a new one.

 

[akaatomic]

I run a 75g FOWLR tank without a sump and things are doing great. No corals, but you can keep a tank stable without a sump. My other tank has a sump. Do you have a check valve on your return line that prevent the water from running back down that pipe into your sump? Did you drill a siphon break in the return line just below the surface of your display tank? If the power goes out and you don't have one of those two (both for good measure) your return line is an instant siphon. It will siphon all the way down to wherever your return stops in your display. Also, if you don't have one buy an Aqualifter pump for your overflow. It sounds like you're getting a lot of air trapped in the overflow box and your water level keeps rising. It's another pump, but you'll forget it's there and wonder how you lived without it. If I'm off base on your setup just tell me to shut up.

 

[SlowCobra]

Check valves WILL fail. Do not design a system based on check valves.

A PROPERLY designed system will not overflow the tank or the sump.

 

[raddogz]

This is not a perfect solution, but have you considered drilling siphon break holes?

 

[akaatomic]

Check valves WILL fail? Out of all of the mechanical devices manufactured on this planet you're telling me that we still haven't gotten check valves right? Like anything else, just don't buy the cheapest one on the shelf. Again, I recommended using both for safe measure. Siphon breaks are more likely to fail as the hole can become clogged or grown over with coraline with time.

 

[SlowCobra]

OK, well I guess the countless posts I read on here alone about people with check valves that have failed at the most inopportune of times means nothing. You keep designing systems improperly and recommend check valves and I will keep recommending the system be properly setup so that the EVENTUAL failure of these devices is not a factor. Saltwater, sand, algae, food, detritus, and even possibly a small chip of rock are all factors that affect the check valves. Apparently I am clueless though so I will offer no more advice on how to PROPERLY keep the tank and sump combo over-flow free.

 

[Fig]

You need a hole drilled in your return line towards the top to break the back siphon
when you face a power outage. Do you have one??

 

[raddogz]

There is nothing that is fail-safe folks.

If you use a HOB overflow you have to clean it just like the siphon break hole, and/or the check valve. I have bought the Georg Fischer check valve from Savko only because you can disassemble it somewhat to clean.

Reeftanks are not set it and forget it tanks.

emoutz - I suggest that you join a local reef club or at least see go see what/how other fellow reefers have their tanks setup to stop this overflowing of the sump and the frustration you are going through.

 

[akaatomic]

I seriously doubt you've read "countless" articles on the subject. You're making that up. So tell us, what's the answer to emoutz's question? Try contributing positive info. BTW - check valves are used everywhere from septic systems to municipal water lines to hospital IV's. I doubt that hospitals would rely heavily on failing technology for every patient. There are diaphragm check valves, swing check valves, clapper check valves, stop-check valves, lift-check valves, etc... Some work better than others for aquarium use. Most people use ball check valves as they're spring controlled and don't rely on back pressure to close the valves.