Lighting Website Updates

[TropTrea]

A few days ago I was viewing a chart on photosynthesis chemicals and what wavelenghts of light there most readily utilized by each. What I noted was many of these were only using a very narrow spectrum of wave lenghts.

With this in mind and the known adaptibility of many corals I believe that wat is happening is that the chemicals balance changes in corals to match what is available to them for photosynthesis. When we see a coral browning what were actually seeing is the decrease of one chemical and the increase in another chemical which can be productive with the available light.

Keeping this in mind as one is aclimating the corals it could actually be possible to find the right wavelenght light to increase some of the color intensity of specific corals. I think hahnmeister might have something on his comment about cololoring up corals under T-5 lighting with the addition of some 3,000K to 6,500K light. It makes loads of sense.

Dennis

 

[Brent Thomann]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8415034#post8415034 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RedEyeReef
Is the 400w Coralvue Reeflux 12K (not 10K) on the list to be tested anytime soon?

Anyone using this bulb like to comment?

I recently replaced my old coralvue 250w HQI's 14k w/ the newer coralvue reeflux 12k HQI. I know you're asking about the 400w, would imagine the 250w are similar.

All I have to say is wow! very impressed, corals colored up much much more. The reeflux 12k are MUCH more bluer than the coralvue 14k's. Almost look like a 20k bulb. Haven't really noticed a big change in coral growth, only been 2 weeks though.

Really anxious to see how they test out sanjay

 

[TropTrea]

I think this is fin example of how we should not go by manufacturers data. Theoreticly a 14K bulb should be bluer and less bright appearing than a 12K bulb. However we have two bulbs by the same manufacturer that display the reverse of what we would expect.

This makes me wonjhder where manufacturers get the Kelvin ratings from? Do they just pull them out of a majic hat. Where are the truth in advertising laws on these light bulbs?

Sanjay is doing the hobby a great service by testing these bulbs and reporting there performance in an unbiased way. However Sanjay has limited time and resources so he cannot test every new lighting system or bulb as fast as they come out on the market.

What would be great would be some unbiased group that could test lighing systems, create a universal standard and approval system. It could actually be funded by the bulb manufacturers who either pay X fee for each bulb they want listed or there products are not listed. This would be simular to how UL, CSA, and other agencies work.

Dennis

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8455569#post8455569 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by humpn247
I recently replaced my old coralvue 250w HQI's 14k w/ the newer coralvue reeflux 12k HQI. I know you're asking about the 400w, would imagine the 250w are similar.

All I have to say is wow! very impressed, corals colored up much much more. The reeflux 12k are MUCH more bluer than the coralvue 14k's. Almost look like a 20k bulb. Haven't really noticed a big change in coral growth, only been 2 weeks though.

Really anxious to see how they test out sanjay

 

[Sanjay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8456387#post8456387 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TropTrea
I think this is fin example of how we should not go by manufacturers data. Theoreticly a 14K bulb should be bluer and less bright appearing than a 12K bulb. However we have two bulbs by the same manufacturer that display the reverse of what we would expect.

This makes me wonjhder where manufacturers get the Kelvin ratings from? Do they just pull them out of a majic hat. Where are the truth in advertising laws on these light bulbs?

Sanjay is doing the hobby a great service by testing these bulbs and reporting there performance in an unbiased way. However Sanjay has limited time and resources so he cannot test every new lighting system or bulb as fast as they come out on the market.

What would be great would be some unbiased group that could test lighing systems, create a universal standard and approval system. It could actually be funded by the bulb manufacturers who either pay X fee for each bulb they want listed or there products are not listed. This would be simular to how UL, CSA, and other agencies work.

Dennis

You are right. Most manufacturer's tend to pull numbers to increase thier sales. There is often no basis for the numbers. There are however manufacturer's whose numbers are more trustworthy... eg. Iwasaki, Ushio and other German/Japanese manufacturers. Color temperature is very finiky and sensitive to a lot of parameters especially in metal halides.. so if it comes within the ball park of advertised numbers its reasonabale.

If you look at the data, you will find some 10K rated lamps have spectrum's that look like 20K rated lamps.

You are also right about me having limited time to do this.. especially on lamps that I particularly have no interest in ever using. Those get pushed lower into the queue Additionally, time devoted to testing comes after work, family, my tanks, and other fun stuff.. and then what ever is left gets used for testing. Although at times I have reversed the order of things. Used to be that my tanks were self supporting and it gave me more time to play with lighting.. but right now I am in the throws of getting a new 500G tank going, and finishing off the basement. So, I end up spending more time with the development of my tank. Things are about to reach a steady state with the tank and I will be getting back to testing around Thanksgiving timeframe.

sanjay.

 

[Mr Howdy]

Sanjay
I am new to the board but because I am setting up a new tank and I was wondering what your lighting set up will be. I will have a 60 x 48 x 31" deep tank and I am starting with 3 luminarc III reflectors. I am sure you have answered this question already but I could not find it.
Regards

 

[FVernese]

Lighting Question for new tank

Lighting Question for new tank

Sanjay or anyone I would very much appreciate help with lighting question?

I am trying to decide on lighting a new reef tank I ordered (74x31x29h). Tank will be mostly SPS with few soft corals. I was going to go with 3 (400w 10,000K SE) however, based on your research the XM 250 W 10,000K SE with PFO HQI ballast have PPFD of 182 and .49 eficiency. Since that is higher than most 400 W SE bulbs why go with 400W bulbs that are more amps and hotter? Am I missing something?

Thanks
Frank

 

[hahnmeister]

FVernese,
Sanjay tests all combinations that work, but that doesnt mean you should run them like that. The reason the XM 400wattSEs run with such a great output on the HQI ballast is because the HQI ballast is overdriving the bulb... like running your car on jet fuel. Sure, the first few months will be great, with blinding output, but after that, the HQI will burn that bulb out like a firecracker... 60% gone by 9-12 months.

Most 400wattSE bulbs are not HQI rated, but really probe start, and so they should be run with electronic ballasts only. Running them on HQI might give a huge boost to begin with, but that low pressure bulb is being run with a high-pressure rated ballast that will kill it that much faster.

If you want a true HQI rated bulb, I believe Ushio and Aqualine Buschke's 400wattSEs are high-pressure bulbs. Otherwise, I also know Aquaconnect 14,000K, and some Ushio/BLV ones are as well. These bulbs will last longer, and give you more output in the long run.

Otherwise, for a 29" tall tank, I would just use 250wattDE bulbs in some nice reflectors. XDE 10,000Ks would be my choice, with Lumenarc DE fixtures or similar for a nice spread.

Mr Howdy, Sanjay has his new reef detailed in this thread...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=730564
He is using lumenarcs with 10,000Ks... and the rest is there^^^

 

[FVernese]

Hahnmeister

Thank you so much for the information. I think the 250 XDEs may be the way to go. What about a 400SE in center and 250 DEs on each side or just go with three 250 XDEs?

The tank I ordered is 74 x 31 x 29 h, but it has Euro brace plus steel brace so I have two 2 inch straps font to back (Aquariums For You would not guarantee Euro brace alone so they reduced size of Eruo Brace to 2 inches and added Steel brace). That gives me three 27x 22.4 inch openings. I like the Lumenarcs but they are big and if I wanted to add VHOs or more lighting in future there would not be sufficient room. Is there another reflector you could recommend that is a little smaller?

Thank you and regards
Frank

 

[Sanjay]

Frank,

For a tank that is 31" wide, you will definately need to go with a reflector that will give you a wider spread, that mean a larger reflector. Have yoou seen the smaller verions of the lumenarc or the lumenmax. ? I think if you can accomodate those it will be a good choice. The smaller lumenmax has a version with the DE lamps. I am not sure of the exact dimensions, but you can find that on the Sunlight Suppy and Pacific garden supply website.

250W lamps will be fine, with these reflectors.

sanjay.

 

[FVernese]

Sanjay and hahnmeister thanks for the help. I will go with 3 lumenarc DEs (perfect size) and 250 DE 10000K bulbs with PFO HQI ballast.

With Respect to the bulbs, the EVC, XM or AB have good efficiency with PPFD/CCT of 147/5700, 109/7026, and 107/8225, respectively. I assume if I want more blue I would go with the AB?

Regards

 

[hahnmeister]

Your numbers seem a little off, but you are correct in assuming that the EVC is a much yellower bulb... its more like a 6500K, and all that extra light in the red/yellow spectrums wont do much for you except brown stuff out.

I strongly suggest looking at the Geisemann Coral 13,000K. More light than the XM/AB, but bluer looking. The quality of the G-man bulbs is also very good. I used to have one that lasted 2 years, no problems.

 

[FVernese]

I must have missed that one on Sanjay's list. It looks great and given your experience with it I now have the last piece of the puzzle. I will go with the Geisemann 250 Coral 13K DE.

Thanks again
Frank

 

[Sanjay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8465847#post8465847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Your numbers seem a little off, but you are correct in assuming that the EVC is a much yellower bulb... its more like a 6500K, and all that extra light in the red/yellow spectrums wont do much for you except brown stuff out.

I absolutely do not agree that the EVC will brown stuff out. I have used this lamp and have never faced this problem. If you search the site you will find the Penn State tank pictures with the EVC lamps and there is nothing there that is browned out. The colors of the corals were spectacular.

sanjay.

 

[brad23]

Anyone have pics of what the Iwasaki 15000k look like? color

 

[Mr Howdy]

hahnmeister
Thats for the quick reply!

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8466752#post8466752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sanjay
I absolutely do not agree that the EVC will brown stuff out. I have used this lamp and have never faced this problem. If you search the site you will find the Penn State tank pictures with the EVC lamps and there is nothing there that is browned out. The colors of the corals were spectacular.

sanjay.

Sure, Im sure you can get great growth from it, but I just find it easier to brown corals out with warmer K bulbs. I can brown out a coral with a 250wattDE 10,000K on IC ballast, but I could use a bluer bulb with a much higher output (400wattHQI 14,000K) and never have that happen. Same coral, same tank, jus swap the bulb/ballast out and even though there is more PAR the coral doesnt brown out? Seems to go against some ideas... If Dana Riddle's research with LEDs suggested anything, it was that its much harder to brown corals out with all blue light than it is with red. I suppose, its an 'extreme', and I know that warmer/fuller range bulbs dont mean less color (they usually mean more)... but they were just tricky for me. Then again, I run at a pretty high wattage per gallon ratio on my tanks.

 

[kdblove_99]

Ok,

I have no idea how to read this stuff! Like what efficiency is good, etc. Need to buy 2 DE Metal halide bulbs. probably 10K but maybe 14K

 

[hahnmeister]

What tank size, what do you plan to keep in the tank, etc...??

 

[LRS]

Hello Sanjay / Hahnmeitster,

I am currently setting up a 40g SPS frag tank, 36"l x 18"w x 16"h. I have a PFO 400W HQI ballast and a PFO horizontal SE pendant. What bulb would you suggest for "optimal" growth without compromising too much on esthetics. I was thinking of an Aqua Connect 400w 14K or XM 400w 10K/15K ( I don't know if 15K is available). What suggestions would you have? Also, How high above the top of the tank would the pendant give me an optimal spread? Your advice/comments will be very much appreciated!

Many thanks...

 

[TropTrea]

My thoughs here are that it might not be the bulb itself but the combination of bulb and coral.

Each coral type has various photosynthesis chemicals which are distributed in different ratios. Each of these chemicals also reacts to different frequencies of light in different ways. General speaking if the chemical is appearing blue then it is reflecting and not using blue light but instead other colors in the light spectrum.

Say we have a coral with three photosynthesis chemical we will call A, B, and C. Chemical A absorbs and utalizes light at 450 nm and reflects light at 500nm., Chemical B utalizes light at 475 nm and reflects light at 550 nm, and C utalizes light at 600nm and and reflects it at 720nm.

In a perfectly balanced situation all three chemicals are in equal proportion and receiving equal amounts in each of these frequencies. Suddenly the lighting is changed to where more light is at 600 nm, and there is little light available at 475 nm. The long term result is that the Chemical C would increase from 30% to possibly 60%, Chemical A would remain at about 30% and Chemical B drop to 10%.

While the coral would still remain healthy as it has adjusted to the new light frequencies it also will have a drastic shift in its coloring. Now mind you I picked wavelenghts out of a hat in this example but each coral has a different balance between various chemicals which creats the many different colar colors and hues. Any change in the lighting can cause shifts in these colors on the bases of what light is available for them to refelce as well as where the pigmented chemicals will prevail.

Dennis

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8470016#post8470016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Sure, Im sure you can get great growth from it, but I just find it easier to brown corals out with warmer K bulbs. I can brown out a coral with a 250wattDE 10,000K on IC ballast, but I could use a bluer bulb with a much higher output (400wattHQI 14,000K) and never have that happen. Same coral, same tank, jus swap the bulb/ballast out and even though there is more PAR the coral doesnt brown out? Seems to go against some ideas... If Dana Riddle's research with LEDs suggested anything, it was that its much harder to brown corals out with all blue light than it is with red. I suppose, its an 'extreme', and I know that warmer/fuller range bulbs dont mean less color (they usually mean more)... but they were just tricky for me. Then again, I run at a pretty high wattage per gallon ratio on my tanks.