Lineage

[Moser]

I need to ask..... Something that confuses me. I'm from the UK, so this sort of thing doesn't happen here, yet!.

Does lineage start in the ocean, or when it reaches a particular sellers/ reefers hands?.

I see that when a ? New reefer gets a nice frag and tries to ID it as an expensive named coral, s/he gets jumped all over for doing it and gets told if it didn't come from such and such, then you cant call it the same coral, yet I have Fiji / Indonesian corals directly from such places that I know are the same coral.

Also, when named corals become more common, then such a fuss isn't made any more eg if anybody tries to match the red planet, no big deal. Try to call your frag a shades of fall and you're in trouble.

What gives?. Many times, it's absolutely clear that it's the same coral,but somehow you have to prove lineage, but only back to the first US dealer, it seems. Why does it matter, especially when it's often obvious that it's the same coral?.

Thanks
Mo

 

[Soy]

many corals can look similar but there are so many variations and not to mention different morphs under certain environments. lineage has mostly to do with aquacultured pieces. doesnt really matter but if you want to be absolutely sure its the same piece that you seen from somewhere else then lineage matters. another point is some vendors have brand equity which can add more value to a coral. People get a better idea how much the acro is worth if you decide to sell frags.

 

[SpinyReef]

Lineage is basically verifying the brand name of the coral. See it as if you were buying your wife a used designer handbag and she wants to make sure its not a knock off, so she tries to track the line of owners back to the original store. There's also a difference between calling a "black handbag" a "luis vuiton black handbag". Same goes for "Red Planet" vs "ORA Red Planet". Personally I can deal with just having the knockoff "Red Planet" in my tank, but some people can't and want to brag they have the designer overpriced one, like my spouse, who BTW will only be getting a cheap knockoff handbag.

 

[sirreal63]

Lineage is marketing, just a way to add value to raise the price. It is a silly practice and one I refuse to pay for.

 

[CUNAReefer]

Lineage is marketing, just a way to add value to raise the price. It is a silly practice and one I refuse to pay for.

There are also some reefers that will take a maricultured piece and add "tyree" or "reef raft" to the name so they can charge $75 an inch. I've been a victim of named corals multiple times. I use the name so I know what the coral should look like when it grows out. The worst I ever got burned was when I bought a Rommels Rainbow, Atlantis Rainbow, and an Atlantis Red Table all from a local reefer. When I grew them all out, they were all Waynes Rainbow. Be careful with names...

James

 

[Moser]

Lineage is basically verifying the brand name of the coral. See it as if you were buying your wife a used designer handbag and she wants to make sure its not a knock off, so she tries to track the line of owners back to the original store. There's also a difference between calling a "black handbag" a "luis vuiton black handbag". Same goes for "Red Planet" vs "ORA Red Planet". Personally I can deal with just having the knockoff "Red Planet" in my tank, but some people can't and want to brag they have the designer overpriced one, like my spouse, who BTW will only be getting a cheap knockoff handbag.

Given that they all originated from almost the same area of ocean. What is a knock off Red Planet?, probably the same coral?.

A red hyacinthus that was bought as an unknown wild colony, Vs one that went through ORA.... which was probably, originally an unknown wild colony?. I think it's unusual to the US market as other areas of the world get the same corals, but are not given fancy names. One thing though, when we buy a coral, we have no idea of what it's final coloration will be. you can buy a brown frag and know exactly what it should look like a few months later. you can also compare notes on growth rates and position etc. That is certainly a benefit.

Mo

 

[dvanacker]

It complicated....hahahah

 

[Moser]

It complicated....hahahah

Yeah, that's why I asked!. :spin2:

Mo

 

[dvanacker]

Given that they all originated from almost the same area of ocean. What is a knock off Red Planet?, probably the same coral?

Maybe the same. Maybe not. Red planet is a bad example because there are very similar and maybe even the same corals coming in from the wild on some what regular basis (not all the often but does happen). But if you do get a wild colony who is to say that it will grow the same, be as bright and as hardy as the one that orignated from ORA....maybe it will....maybe it wont.

I like to use the example of my palmers blue millepora. I've had probably 3 other variants of purple/blue millepora but none of them have been as bright, fast grower and hardy as my palmers blue millepora. If someone gets a wild blue millepora should they just call it palmers blue millepora so they can cut frags and sell it for more.....NO IMO. This is where lineage becomes important. You want to know you are getting the exact same coral that you witnessed online or from a follow hobbyists system....not a look a like that may or may not be the exact same. Take a look at all those wild superman montiporas out there....some of them suck compared to the original.

On another note their are named acropora where I have never seen another one like it come in on a shipment. But yet people like to steal these names as well. Pink lemonade comes to mind. Also strangely enough I have never witness a wild or maricultured sunset montipora....

For the record I have purchased a few corals and know quite a few friends that have purchased corals that have been sold as a certain named coral only to find out it is slightly different and not the exact same.....its a bummer when that happens.

But with all the names out there and people not adhering to any standard it is tough. What I suggest is not to use the same name unless you are %100 sure it is the same (some people are horrible at making this call though)....but if you use the same name please be open and honest that you think it is the exact same but the origin is not ORA, tyree etc .

Ie

ORA red planet vs. Mosers red planet.

Which corals have you seen come in wild that are the exact same as named ones?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

another way to look at it is the thing about corals plucked right from the ocean is that they are not proven to be hardy enough for peoples different tank parameters, to me when I buy a named brand coral that tells me that it has proven itself to live in many different environments and has adapted to captivity quite well. so with the high price tag comes a little bit more security knowing that that coral will have a better chance of living. so if you just took a coral from the ocean and know for sure it is the same lineage it does not have the same chance of survival in captivity and thus would be unethical to give it the same name.