Lionfish the other white meat

Are lionfish proliferating in Cozumel? I was in Coz last year, dove 10 days and didn't see any lionfish. Where did you see them?

I just realized you wanted to know which dive sites. The photo above is of one the DM caught at Palancar Gardens. The other two they weren't able to catch but one was Palancar Caves and the other Tormentos.
The dive OP also had a fish tank with four to five Lionfish. It changed everyday because the biggest ones would eat the others and then the DMs would add more when they catch them. The Dive OP mentioned something about not being allowed to kill the Lionfish because they were supposed to turn them in to be studied.
 
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I just realized you wanted to know which dive sites. The photo above is of one the DM caught at Palancar Gardens. The other two they weren't able to catch but one was Palancar Caves and the other Tormentos.
The dive OP also had a fish tank with four to five Lionfish. It changed everyday because the biggest ones would eat the others and then the DMs would add more when they catch them. The Dive OP mentioned something about not being allowed to kill the Lionfish because they were supposed to turn them in to be studied.

Well our divemaster took a different approach. This was from near the Santa Rosa wall, I think. He carried a mini hawaian sling just for the occasion
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So from what ive read-
the current theory from where exactly those lionfish off the florida coast originated is unclear, however, the current working hypothesis is from a release of 8 fish from a hobbyist aquarium due to hurricane andrew. Mitchondrial DNA analysis from over 100 lion fish has shown 2 invasive lionfish species (P Volitans, P Miles), that the examined fish were all derived from a few founder fish (most likely the 7 or so released from the aquarium) and these fish originated from the indo-Pacific. The atlantic lionfish are growing larger and have a higher population density than their S Pacific counterparts (15" Vs 18" SL, and 80fish/hectare Vs 393+/- 144 f/h)

The unfortunate part is that many of the lionfish's natural predators are not found in the atlantic waters (since humans have fish out most of the groupers), also indo-pacific lionfish are cannibals with adult lions consuming small lions, this appears one way they keep populations down, however in the Atlantic they appear not to be doing this as food resources are very abundant.


Lastly, i was in Bermuda 4 months ago and one restaurant had lionfish tempura which was amazing (taste like a light flaky grouper) and another resturant had coconut encrusted lionfish w/ a mango salsa- also very tasty. I have to admit as much as i love lionfish- its definitely an eating fish.
 
Yay, at least some places are putting it on the menu. What is a P. Miles? Thats not one normally imported for aquariums as far as I know, just dug through my books briefly and didnt see it listed anywhere. Maybe it would be cool for the trade.

At this point in time why are we still concerned about where they came from and not more concerned with what to do about it? I always read this stuff and it always asks where they came from and who to point fingers at, its almost like the way government works. Not pointing fingers at you in particular, Fmarini and thats the best info I have heard yet actually, its just every article or bleb I read is always high on the blame and low on the solution. Any way we can trick the Chinese into thinking they make great medicine for virulity, rivaling tiger and sea horse parts in potency?

Did I read that right, 80 fish per hectare vs 393+ fish per hectacre? If so thats insane. Someone needs to come with a use for them. Lionfish spike writing utensils or earings. Surely every kid with piercings would want a lionfish spike through their nose and nipples. Instead of popcycle sticks, we use lionfish spikes. Can we use them to hold down tents?
 
blue--
unfortunately i think most folks are low on solutions, and right now assessing blame is only useful to ensure this type of problem doesnt happen again. Scientists are using the blame game to figure out where the fish originated- nothing more- no one is asking for compensation once blame is established.
Thats said- lionfish are currently decimating the local recruits in much of the eastern seaboard and as you note from the NOAA site- the fish march onward unimpeded, except maybe by a few divemasters who think the fish look cool w/ a spear thru them, or as i mentioned as a menu item.
AS for P miles-- it looks like a P volitans except fewer dorsal spines and smaller body- to the untrained its the same fish as P volitans.Its already in the trade, I see it infrequently-but always misID'd
Yes i quoted that information from published scientific journals, the 80 Vs 393 is real-saddly. Actually a chunk of my reply came from that book in my avatar
 
i've been told by the leader of REEF Special Projects (spearhead of anti-lionfish) that there is no visual way to differentiate between P. volians and P. miles. the muristics (ray counts etc..) are too overlapped to use it as a night/day determining factor.

the issue with the lionfish here in the atlantic is there will never be an "elimination" of them. they are established...period.

the survive at depths greater than most divers
they survive in every imaginable marine habitat (reef, grass, artificial, mangrove)
they are sexually viable in ~1yr
can reproduce year round
upwards of 30K eggs per spawn, with the eggs being toxic to predators
and they obviously have few natural predators...those that will eat them...still don't very often
 
i mentioned both P miles and P volitans because then term "lionfish" covers them both, its not just one species thats has become an established invasive specie(s) problem, its both of them.

Never the less, there are meristic features which differentiate between the two species (10 dorsal spines (p miles) vs 12-14(p volitans)), and different tubercles on the face. Once you see a P miles you will be able to tell it apart from a P volitans.

However there is no rhyme nor reason to know the differences between the two species, except for your own knowledge, because to 99.999% of the folks these are invasive lionfish.
 
Great, you know what you have done now FMarini? Now I am going to spine count when I go to fish stores and see lionfish. I anticipate a long time standing in front of the lionfish tank at Seaworld.
Why are we still importing 'Volitans' for the trade when we have a much greater abundance right off the coast? We have collectors here. I am well aware the trade doesnt really make a huge impact in the wild numbers compared to some other factors but any dent is a dent. Besides we would have less tank deaths due to longer shipping stresses. Not really sure how that process works to get it started.
 
I still think they should be a food item- I was really impressed at how good it tasted.
 
2nd best fish I have eaten

2nd best fish I have eaten

I had the chance to poke a few of these guys on a diving trip to an outer island in bahamas, we were diving in the area were the atlanic met the carribean. These fish were everywhere.

Like YOUSMELLSFISHY said, the DM carried a sling on the dive just for this reason.

After 3 dives, about an hour each, we had 2 dozen or so. I was amazed at the numbers.

I am not a big fan of fish but I love dorado (dolphin, mahi-mahi)... These lionfish ranked right up with dorado (to me). My mom isnt into eating fish at all. I got her to try some and she loved it. They are really good.

I have been told they carry a high level of bacteria that is not so good for ya, but this was after I ate em. I had no ill effects, nor did the other 5 people w/ me who enjoyed the dinner. Maybe its more about not eating them everyday for months- which would effect people who live in these areas who whould consume them on a daily basis.

They have no natural preditors and they eat anything that fits in thier over-sized mouth. They reproduce very rapidly.

I am all about helping controll the invasion by putting them on the menu.
 
we have ocean triggers here, but they are pretty much a water column fish.

we have some other species of triggers, but they aren't very big.

and you have to remember these fish are not native, so our native fish don't know to try them as food.



as for them carrying "bacteria"....never heard of anything like that. and besides, cooking kills bacteria.
 
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