directfish2
In Memoriam
Is kents liquid calcium reactor suppose to be time release?
liquid calcium reactor
- Thread starter directfish2
- Start date
directfish2
In Memoriam
so why do they sell it... also why do people seem to use it so much.
I am testing it right now with an emtpy tank of salt water and adding it and monertering the results. seems to raise the CA
I may try turbo calcium in the future\\
The product has been out for a while for something that is a "joke"
most jokes only last a few months like.... as seen on tv stuff lol
any recomendations for calcium besides liquid calcium reactor and tech cb ( and probucts like it)
and i dont mean any typeof reactor i mean a chemical
I am testing it right now with an emtpy tank of salt water and adding it and monertering the results. seems to raise the CA
I may try turbo calcium in the future\\
The product has been out for a while for something that is a "joke"
most jokes only last a few months like.... as seen on tv stuff lol
any recomendations for calcium besides liquid calcium reactor and tech cb ( and probucts like it)
and i dont mean any typeof reactor i mean a chemical
directfish2
In Memoriam
?
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Uh, I go with the B-ionic system [2-part]. C-balance and Ocean's Blend I also like .. don't really like Kent products. Decent stuff, but too expensive or problematic IME.
directfish2
In Memoriam
what type of problems
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Sat around at LFS and turned rock-hard for some of it, seemed more likely to form precipitate. Overpriced as not available locally here in large containers [like B-ionic is].
Just my take ... what I've had success with.
Just my take ... what I've had success with.
directfish2
In Memoriam
oh
Thunnus
Premium Member
Kent is a large company that can afford to produce stuff like "liquid reactor" at incredibly high mark ups, to sell to people who dont know any better. If you dont want a calcium reactor (which is the cheapest way for me to maitain calcium/alk) then a 2 part is your best route.
directfish2
In Memoriam
yeah well i get all stuff at 25% off lol so markup dont bother me to much... but what do you recomend for a calcium reactor and do you know how to build one will it work without co2 ? if not will it work using a hagen natural co2 reeactor.( i know its only a little co2 but ...) what if i make one and use hagens co2 reactor and use a real slow flow rate
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Agreed on the Ca reactor without a CO2 tank. Not very effective ... and without control on how much CO2 you're adding [dangerous, if it gave off enough].
Depending on the tank you're supplimenting, and the stock ... I'd just go with a 2-part solution and water tests.
Works great for both my tanks, not to expensive [IMO] + nicely reliable. Reactors are great ... but as mis-adjusted it could do bad things to my tank ... I'm not saving $$ going cheap on this.
Just my take, but better safe than sorry.
Depending on the tank you're supplimenting, and the stock ... I'd just go with a 2-part solution and water tests.
Works great for both my tanks, not to expensive [IMO] + nicely reliable. Reactors are great ... but as mis-adjusted it could do bad things to my tank ... I'm not saving $$ going cheap on this.
Just my take, but better safe than sorry.
directfish2
In Memoriam
any way to control how much CA is in the tank when using a calcium reactor
directfish2
In Memoriam
i dont want to overdose my tank
but what is better reactor or chemical addidive
but what is better reactor or chemical addidive
directfish2
In Memoriam
i mean to do it by its self so that i wont have to adjust it . i dont want it to overdose an i dont wanna spend week aitong till i get it correct i wanna plug and go
thats why i was using liquid reactor test right now on the test tank i was talking about
430 ppm cal and maintaining that even when i add more
thats why i was using liquid reactor test right now on the test tank i was talking about
430 ppm cal and maintaining that even when i add more
Thunnus
Premium Member
Unless calcium gets consumed by corals, it will stay the same. It dosent go up when you add more because it is not strong enough to have too much effect on levels.
No, a reactor is not plug and play. Very few pieces of equipment are. If you like the chemical you are using, stick with it. You should go to the chemistry forum and ask Dr. Holmes-Farley. He will direct you to articles on this topic. SOunds to me like the answer that you want to hear is liquid reactor is great stuff. You wont find any experienced reefers here that will say that it is.
No, a reactor is not plug and play. Very few pieces of equipment are. If you like the chemical you are using, stick with it. You should go to the chemistry forum and ask Dr. Holmes-Farley. He will direct you to articles on this topic. SOunds to me like the answer that you want to hear is liquid reactor is great stuff. You wont find any experienced reefers here that will say that it is.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Looking at Randy's articles ... this one is quite relevant. And interesting:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2002/chem.htm
And this one:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm
Then there's this final one on Ca/Alk ... more of a good reference than discussing the products in this thread:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm
And check the archive there too. Great stuff. Good reminder of all the stuff I don't know
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2002/chem.htm
And this one:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm
Then there's this final one on Ca/Alk ... more of a good reference than discussing the products in this thread:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm
And check the archive there too. Great stuff. Good reminder of all the stuff I don't know
Kent Marine
New member
Hello Folks,
We received an inquiry from a forum member regarding Liquid Reactor and some information they had read in this and other threads, so I figured it might be a good idea to join and see what I could do about the confusion. Before I begin, I would like to make it clear that I am the marine scientist and head of research and development for Kent Marine. That means that I am involved in product development directly, including formulation. My intention in this and all subsequent posts is not to push Kent products, but will be to help answer questions. Rather than pontificate on "facts" that may be posted on our products, I'm simply going to keep it real. That said...
Liquid Reactor has become a sort of cult product; some people love it, others haven't gotten the results they wanted with it. The product is not in any way a gimmick; in fact, if you think about it, we stand to lose money with every bottle of Liquid Reactor sold. Why? Because by itself, it contains calcium, strontium, magnesium, and carbonates, which would account for 4 products and could potentially decrease sales of the 12 products we offer that contain these substances. I was contacted some time ago by Mr. Holmes-Farley regarding the chemical make-up of Liquid Reactor, however I could be only be so specific with his inquiry because the details surrounding the formulation are proprietary. Therefore, I don't think that the product got a very favorable review from hobbyists on that forum. We are the last people to suggest that you "take our word for it" and add the product to the aquarium on faith, but I can tell you that the sales for this product are quite good because it works for a lot of people; to me it suggests that those hobbyists not needing to know every detail about the way the product works, but rather are interested in what the long-term results will be in their reefs, are using Liquid Reactor and are happy to do so.
Let's discuss the chemistry of the product a little. Liquid Reactor contains calcium, magnesium, strontium, and carbonates as active ingredients. In the bottle, the majority of these ions are in solution, while the rest are in suspension as a micro-fine particle, akin to the particles that form clays. Calcium salts, particularly those in solution with carbonate and bicarbonate ions, have low solubility, therefore only so much of them will go into solution unless something is added to break ionic bonds and prevent precipitation. This is where the so-called "inactive ingredients" come in, and this was (and remains to be) the information that I could not go into detail about. Suffice it to say that none of the ingredients are derived from organic sources. That is to say, we do not chelate anything in this product. Additionally, there is absolutely no chloride in the product. So to simplify, the inactive ingredients are largely responsible for the means by which we can have such a strong source of calcium in the product. Now, the overall concentration of calcium in this product is just over 126,000 ppm, and the concentrations of carbonates, magnesium, and strontium are present in the same ratios (relative to the calcium) that exist in natural aragonite.
Many people have implied that Liquid Reactor is nothing more than aragonite in a bottle. Reef-formed aragonite has different percentages of impurities (true aragonite is pure calcium carbonate, roughly 40% calcium by mass) such as silica, iron, and aluminum. We specifically avoided using aragonite of any sort in this product, but rather formulated something that would provide the same benefits of aragonite dissolution without the afore-mentioned impurities and without the use of a formal calcium reactor. Of course, one can make a case for including magnesium and strontium in with the group of impurities, however these elements are generally regarded by reef hobbyists as safe and desirable, so we felt that they should be included in the product.
So how does the product really work? Inside the bottle, as previously mentioned, a percentage of the material is dissolved and the rest is essentially in a solid form, albeit in microfine particles. This occurs because the liquid is saturated with respect to calcium and carbonate ions (again, the "mystery ingredients" in the product enable us to dissolve more calcium and carbonate than when using straight purified water). When the product is added to water that is undersaturated with these ions, the micro-fine particles begin to dissolve into the system. The overall result is that the concentrations of the active ingredients in the system initially and rapidly increase due to their addition in the dissolved state, and then a "secondary" and gradual increase of these ingredients occurs as the particles dissolve into the water over time. This is precisely why the product clouds the aquarium for an hour or two following addition, and why it gradually clears. So in this fashion, the secondary increase might be thought of as a time-release, though we don't market it as such.
Let's discuss some of the negative issues we've seen with the product. First, the material in suspension has a tendency to solidify in the bottom of the bottle. This issue was addressed early on and the formula was changed to increase the amount of material that went into solution; that is, we decreased the amount of material that was in the solid state but did not alter the overall strength of the active ingredients in the product. This problem is minimized by shaking the bottle for 30-seconds or so prior to use, which gets the particles into suspension where they can be dosed to the aquarium. I'll tell you honestly that this may not always prevent the issue from occurring completely, but it helps. Honestly, we feel that the effectiveness of the product makes up for this "hiccup".
The second issue we heard from time to time was that hobbyists were having a hard time measuring a tremendous change in their calcium concentrations during the first month of adding the product. However, their reef-building invertebrates all seemed to be growing rapidly, and after a month or so of regular dosing they discovered the calcium concentration had gradually increased to over 500 ppm, the alkalinity was in the proper range, and they were happy to be accomplishing this with one product. I took it one step further on my home reef aquarium and built a Nilsen reactor using Liquid Reactor as the media! The design was simple: a column of water sitting atop a magnetic stirring platform, ports for water input and exhaust on the top of the column, a DI unit supplying the water, and a float valve in the sump regulating the dosing (DI units don't require solenoid valves with the use of a float valve). I simply added an entire 16-oz. bottle of Liquid Reactor to the vessel once every three- to four-weeks (this was a 105-gallon reef), and during this period the salinity in the system stayed roughly the same, the calcium never dropped below 500 ppm, alkalinity was 10-12 dKH, and the corals and clams looked great. So in this light, while I hate to say, "Use it for 4-6 weeks and you'll see how effective the product is", it may be the best way to appreciate what the product is capable of doing.
Most of the positive feedback we get on Liquid Reactor is that after a month of regular use, coralline algae is growing rampantly over all surfaces. We use it exclusively in our front office 600-gallon reef, and the coralline has to be scraped nearly weekly because it gets hard to see into the system. Overall, I truly believe that the product is worthy of use in reef aquariums; it's one of the very few products that I actually use in my own reefs. For the hobbyist that wants the benefits of a calcium reactor but can't allocate the considerable amount of money required to buy one, this product is an affordable alternative.
I would like to close by saying that I will be happy to address constructive criticism of Kent Marine products by anyone with a question. I will do my best to answer questions as time permits.
We received an inquiry from a forum member regarding Liquid Reactor and some information they had read in this and other threads, so I figured it might be a good idea to join and see what I could do about the confusion. Before I begin, I would like to make it clear that I am the marine scientist and head of research and development for Kent Marine. That means that I am involved in product development directly, including formulation. My intention in this and all subsequent posts is not to push Kent products, but will be to help answer questions. Rather than pontificate on "facts" that may be posted on our products, I'm simply going to keep it real. That said...
Liquid Reactor has become a sort of cult product; some people love it, others haven't gotten the results they wanted with it. The product is not in any way a gimmick; in fact, if you think about it, we stand to lose money with every bottle of Liquid Reactor sold. Why? Because by itself, it contains calcium, strontium, magnesium, and carbonates, which would account for 4 products and could potentially decrease sales of the 12 products we offer that contain these substances. I was contacted some time ago by Mr. Holmes-Farley regarding the chemical make-up of Liquid Reactor, however I could be only be so specific with his inquiry because the details surrounding the formulation are proprietary. Therefore, I don't think that the product got a very favorable review from hobbyists on that forum. We are the last people to suggest that you "take our word for it" and add the product to the aquarium on faith, but I can tell you that the sales for this product are quite good because it works for a lot of people; to me it suggests that those hobbyists not needing to know every detail about the way the product works, but rather are interested in what the long-term results will be in their reefs, are using Liquid Reactor and are happy to do so.
Let's discuss the chemistry of the product a little. Liquid Reactor contains calcium, magnesium, strontium, and carbonates as active ingredients. In the bottle, the majority of these ions are in solution, while the rest are in suspension as a micro-fine particle, akin to the particles that form clays. Calcium salts, particularly those in solution with carbonate and bicarbonate ions, have low solubility, therefore only so much of them will go into solution unless something is added to break ionic bonds and prevent precipitation. This is where the so-called "inactive ingredients" come in, and this was (and remains to be) the information that I could not go into detail about. Suffice it to say that none of the ingredients are derived from organic sources. That is to say, we do not chelate anything in this product. Additionally, there is absolutely no chloride in the product. So to simplify, the inactive ingredients are largely responsible for the means by which we can have such a strong source of calcium in the product. Now, the overall concentration of calcium in this product is just over 126,000 ppm, and the concentrations of carbonates, magnesium, and strontium are present in the same ratios (relative to the calcium) that exist in natural aragonite.
Many people have implied that Liquid Reactor is nothing more than aragonite in a bottle. Reef-formed aragonite has different percentages of impurities (true aragonite is pure calcium carbonate, roughly 40% calcium by mass) such as silica, iron, and aluminum. We specifically avoided using aragonite of any sort in this product, but rather formulated something that would provide the same benefits of aragonite dissolution without the afore-mentioned impurities and without the use of a formal calcium reactor. Of course, one can make a case for including magnesium and strontium in with the group of impurities, however these elements are generally regarded by reef hobbyists as safe and desirable, so we felt that they should be included in the product.
So how does the product really work? Inside the bottle, as previously mentioned, a percentage of the material is dissolved and the rest is essentially in a solid form, albeit in microfine particles. This occurs because the liquid is saturated with respect to calcium and carbonate ions (again, the "mystery ingredients" in the product enable us to dissolve more calcium and carbonate than when using straight purified water). When the product is added to water that is undersaturated with these ions, the micro-fine particles begin to dissolve into the system. The overall result is that the concentrations of the active ingredients in the system initially and rapidly increase due to their addition in the dissolved state, and then a "secondary" and gradual increase of these ingredients occurs as the particles dissolve into the water over time. This is precisely why the product clouds the aquarium for an hour or two following addition, and why it gradually clears. So in this fashion, the secondary increase might be thought of as a time-release, though we don't market it as such.
Let's discuss some of the negative issues we've seen with the product. First, the material in suspension has a tendency to solidify in the bottom of the bottle. This issue was addressed early on and the formula was changed to increase the amount of material that went into solution; that is, we decreased the amount of material that was in the solid state but did not alter the overall strength of the active ingredients in the product. This problem is minimized by shaking the bottle for 30-seconds or so prior to use, which gets the particles into suspension where they can be dosed to the aquarium. I'll tell you honestly that this may not always prevent the issue from occurring completely, but it helps. Honestly, we feel that the effectiveness of the product makes up for this "hiccup".
The second issue we heard from time to time was that hobbyists were having a hard time measuring a tremendous change in their calcium concentrations during the first month of adding the product. However, their reef-building invertebrates all seemed to be growing rapidly, and after a month or so of regular dosing they discovered the calcium concentration had gradually increased to over 500 ppm, the alkalinity was in the proper range, and they were happy to be accomplishing this with one product. I took it one step further on my home reef aquarium and built a Nilsen reactor using Liquid Reactor as the media! The design was simple: a column of water sitting atop a magnetic stirring platform, ports for water input and exhaust on the top of the column, a DI unit supplying the water, and a float valve in the sump regulating the dosing (DI units don't require solenoid valves with the use of a float valve). I simply added an entire 16-oz. bottle of Liquid Reactor to the vessel once every three- to four-weeks (this was a 105-gallon reef), and during this period the salinity in the system stayed roughly the same, the calcium never dropped below 500 ppm, alkalinity was 10-12 dKH, and the corals and clams looked great. So in this light, while I hate to say, "Use it for 4-6 weeks and you'll see how effective the product is", it may be the best way to appreciate what the product is capable of doing.
Most of the positive feedback we get on Liquid Reactor is that after a month of regular use, coralline algae is growing rampantly over all surfaces. We use it exclusively in our front office 600-gallon reef, and the coralline has to be scraped nearly weekly because it gets hard to see into the system. Overall, I truly believe that the product is worthy of use in reef aquariums; it's one of the very few products that I actually use in my own reefs. For the hobbyist that wants the benefits of a calcium reactor but can't allocate the considerable amount of money required to buy one, this product is an affordable alternative.
I would like to close by saying that I will be happy to address constructive criticism of Kent Marine products by anyone with a question. I will do my best to answer questions as time permits.
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