Live rock and sand

Duff Man

Duff Man

New member
I'm getting ready to get my 75 gallon up and running. I have 80 pounds of aragonite, 20 pounds of Arag-Alive sand, and will be getting 90 pounds of live rock. I'm wondering, can I put all the sand in, let the critters in the sand establish themselves, and then put the rock in, or will the critters be killed when the rock cycles? Also, I was told by the guy in the LFS that the live sand is packed in an ammonia solution to provide food for the critters. Do I need to wash the solution off of the sand or would it be beneficial to put the solution in to give a source of ammonia? What has everybody done in the past?
 
I'd put the rock in first right on the glass. Then add the sand. This will prevent any rock slides as sand sifting critters can undermine rock that is on top of the sand.

But, I would let it cycle before adding any critters. It's likely that the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate spikes will kill them. Inverts tend to be more sensitive to those levels than fish and even some corals.

Good luck.
 
If it is packed with ammonia in the bag it can't be very lively if there is any left after a day or two. ;)

Put your sand in. The creatures in Arag-Alive are just bacteria and a cure will do no harm. Once past that you can get some real LS on-line and top dress the bed to provide a bunch of real LS critters. I would also suggest curing the rock in separate vats rather than the display. It avoids adding a lot of nasty decay products into the new system.
 
yes amke sure you put the LR on the glass, then add sand...like capt siad...dont want anything to collapse...like when a pistol starts digging tunnels

i agree with capt on the inverts as well
 
OK, maybe it's not ammonia. I could swear that's what the guy said. S it's good to know that the cycle won't kill the stuff in the $35 bag of sand. I think I'm going to make a drive to pick up some live rock this weekend. I'm about 4-5 hours from a store with really nice live rock that has gotten some good reviews. I was thinking about packing it in coolers for the trip. Would this work for the 4-5 hour trip. I've looked at the LFS's in the chicagoland area and the rock looks like crap and I won't pay $8-9 per pound.
 
Here's a question for you Duff. Do you bury money out in the back yard? No, well why bury good money by burying a lot of your LR. Get some base rock and place that on the glass then sit the LR on top off that. You can also cut off 2" nylon doweling to a level just below the top of the sand and set the rock on that. You'll get more bang for your buck that way.

If that LFS has any real LS that has been harvested or aquacultured in the sea than consider buying several pounds of that for you sandbed. It will have the worms and other critters that help a bed stay healthy.
 
Back from dinner... I was saying I won't pay $8-9 per pound, which is why i'm gonna make a day trip to get some rock(maybe I'll use some of the cash buried in the back yard for gas :) ). Premium Aquatics in Indy has gotten some good reviews from people on this board and others. I like the idea of the base rock though since some will be buried under the sand.
 
I'd put the sand in first, so when you add the LR it doesnt shift and crack the bare glass. The sand makes a great anchor for the LR so it doesnt shift. live sand is a waste, if you haven't bought it yet, then don't. Your sand will be live sand in 6-9 months of your tank being up. As far as sticking base rock.. Don't bother, the LR in your sand will help seed you sand. Actually if you can get a gallon or two from a reefer with good water parameters that you can trust, add some of this water to your tank and it will help it cycle faster. You also can do the uncooked shrip trick, where you put 2 or 3 pieces of uncooked shrip in your tank for a week and it will help your tank cycle even faster.
 
Last edited:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9585703#post9585703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DouglasTiede
live sand is a waste, if you haven't bought it yet, then don't. You sand will be live sand in 6-9 months of your tank being up.
Click to expand...

Now so Doug?
 
It's my understanding that the bacteria in the Arag-Alive will assist in the cycling of the tank. I have already bought it and look forward to using it.
Should I rinse the live sand or pour the sand and liquid in the tank?
 
you are paying a ton for a bag of so called livesand, the sand sits in the bag for weeks and fast consumes the available o2 in the bag, the o2 consuming bacteria die off and the co2 bacteria thrive, when the co2 is used up by them they die, since the co2 bacteria give off o2 and ammonia they poison the bag of live sand and you are left with expensive sand.. Just get some quality LR and you will be better off.

Trust me, I have set up tons of tanks and this is the tried and true method.. even the general consensus here on RC is the LR, cycled with the shrip trick.. just don't rush the cycle or the spikes will kill whatever it is you are adding, patience is a virtue you must have with a saltwater tank.
 
i would go with waterkeepers idea do the base rock its just like live rock but its dried up and dosent fillter the water as much and base rock is ussualy $2-3 a pound if not maby cheaper. it will be worth it. as far as live sand, me personaly would just get a small bag and let the "bacteria" spread over time but i would give it a jumpstart. hope this helps! :)
 
Duff pour the liquid off but don't rinse it.

Time for a WaterKeeper Rant. How a DSB works is well established and how to set one up has been detailed , mainly by the work of Dr. Ron Shimek. It is pure and simple-
  • The bed should have a minimum depth of 3" and preferably 4"
  • The sand needs to be sugar fine and smaller
  • Aragonite is best but smooth silica sand of the proper size can be used
  • The best results can only be obtained when harvested or aquacultured sand is used
  • You can use packaged aragonites but they need to be seeded with true LS
  • LR doesn't provide the diverse population that a true sandbed has. True it will provide bacteria and some other organisms but not all those needed for true bed health
  • Plenums have proven of little or no value in bed design
  • The bed should not be overly disturbed and only the very top portion cleaned.
  • Scavengers should be limited. Snails are OK but hermits tend to prey upon sandbed fauna.
  • Periodic additions of new LS will keep the bed populated and functioning properly

These items, if followed as listed will make a reef aquarium function with limited maintenance. However, if shortcuts are taken to save time or money the bed may fail down the road and cause serious problems. There are many bagged sands sold with freeze dried bacteria. They are not a substitute for real LS. Expecting LR to establish a sandbed is doomed as the bed ages. Expecting "Miracle Product X" to make a sandbed unneeded is pure folly and not having a bed can work but means a slow decline of the LR and possible replacement of all your rockwork.

Ok, rant is over but it did feel good. :D
 
Live sand that you buy in a bag is a waste of money. DouglasTiede said it best. The bacteria that you want in your sand is no longer alive. If you really want to, put some of it in a cup with saltwater and test it. You will not get zero for ammonia. Bagged live sand is very different from the stuff you can dig out of someone's tank. I studied this in school. I just don't want to see a newbie wasting their money.
Good luck in whatever you choose to do.
:)
 
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