Liveaquaria Fish - Dangerous to treat twice?

zoohoot

Member
Liveaquaria.com states that they treat all fish they receive for ich/parasites/etc. before making them available for sale:

Liveaquaria.com QT procedure

If that is the case, is it bad/dangerous/unnecessary to repeat preventative treatments during QT after purchasing the fish?
 
Liveaquaria.com states that they treat all fish they receive for ich/parasites/etc. before making them available for sale:

Liveaquaria.com QT procedure

If that is the case, is it bad/dangerous/unnecessary to repeat preventative treatments during QT after purchasing the fish?

What does "treating for" mean? For a seller, it generally means reducing the level of infestation (like that in the ocean) so that the fish are physiologically not affected by ich while the seller holds them until the time of sale.

Replace "dangerous" and "unnecessary" with safe (with planning) and necessary.

I always QT to eradicate ich for all fish from commercial sources for at least eight weeks. During which I actively treat continuosly, not just observe.

Ask the seller if he can compensate you for all your fish from anywhere bought any time if they come down with ich and die.
 
Thanks for the input so far. I do plan to QT, just wondering if it is still a good idea to medicate if the fish have already been medicated?
 
There are quite a lot of costs in rigorous QT in a commercial setting.

The space and labor can be a lot. I suppose for a large outfit, QT work can be at a low rent place with dedicated staff. Still a lot.

A seller cannot give you the guarantee on liability, unless you never buy from elsewhere, and have to charge you a lot more if you are willing to pay without guarantee.

A surge protector maker can have liability cap of $1,000 or more as a marketing tool, a fish seller cannot.

Unless there is a very close-knit seller-customer relation, commercial rigorous QT is not feasible.
 
The link describes Diver's Den fish (facility in Wisconsin) and not what is done at the Wholesalers in Los Angeles that all their other fish are shipped from. Most Wholesalers have strong UV's on their systems to reduce/eliminate parasite transfer and don't usually treat with meds as they would be broken down by the UV.

No matter where it comes from I always QT.
 
Diver's Den QT's properly, at least they say they do, but they are one of very few vendors that do so...
 
There was a thread recently posted here on this issue. Live Aquaria has two locations: one in California and one in Wisconsin. The California location sells the fish on Live Aquaria's normal site and the Wisconsin facility sells fish from Drivers' Den. The California facility does NOT quarantine fish, nor treat fish for parasites and/or disease normally. The Wisconsin facility always strictly quarantines each and every fish for a reasonable period of time and treats each and every fish for parasites and/or disease, where applicable. I have yet to ever hear of any fish arriving from the Wisconsin facility with a parasite, such as ich or flukes. However, fish from the California facility sometimes do arrive with parasites. Personally, I have had one fish arrive from the California facility which had flukes.
 
Suppose your 125 gal DT is almost completely stocked and you are adding the less livestock.

Here comes a seller stating that the livestock that he is selling you has been QT'ed. You checked. There are many QT tanks and the seller seems very able and even able to tell you in great detail how he QTs.

Would you put the livestock in the DT without QT.

For me, I won't.
 
Wooden Reefer:

Normally, I would not trust the seller and would quarantine. The sole exception for me is Drivers' Den. I and many others that I know have had too many dealings with them over many years not to trust their quarantine protocal which is probably much better than of ours as mere hobbyiests. They have special rooms, procedures and equipment for acclimation, etc. as is posted on their site that make the quarantine process much more effective and less stressful on the fish. I have also watched their detailed video tour of their Wisconsin facility and know people who have visited it. It is the most state of the art quarantine system I am aware of in the hobby. Indeed, with many of the fragile fish sold on Drivers' Den, hobbyiests often do much more damage than good quarantining these fish. Live Aquaria is able to effectively and safely do so because of their special equipment and experience, but hobbyiests often cannot do so effectively and end up killing or stressing out the fish. I would have no inhibition of not quarantining any fish purchased from Drivers' Den and have directly added several fish purchased from Drivers' Den to my display without incident. This is the only exception I would ever make to quarantining every fish purchased.

However, I would consider quarantining a Drivers' Den fish for the sole purpose of getting the fish to eat and feel comfortable after being stressed out from the Fed Ex delivery and not to avoid the introduction of disease or parasites into the display. I would do this only if I was very concerned that upon adding the fish to my display the other fish would be overly aggressive to the new arrival so as to make it very difficult for the new arrival to acclimate to the display. However, I would probably still add the new arrival directly to the display and use other methods to curb aggression from established fish in the display rather than quarantine the new arrival.
 
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Very well put by Stuart60611 and I 100% agree. DD fish are simply the healthiest, disease free specimens I have ever put in my tank compared to regular LA and others. Saying this, I'd still dip the fish before intro into the DT.
 
Diver's Den specimens have the highest probability of being disease free, but as Kevin once wrote even they can't guarante that their fish is disease free so they recommend QT.

Also, like jmaneyapanda stated QT is not only for disease.
 
There is never a guarantee of any fish being disease free, even those we ourselves quarantine. In fact, I would suggest that many hobbyiests who quarantine fish with the best of intentions still manage to introduce parasites into their display because the fish in quarantine does not exhibit signs of the infestation and therefore is not treated in quarantine (which is why some suggest you treat every fish with copper and prazipro before placing the fish in the display whether parasites are observed or not). I guess what I am trying to say is that ultimately the goal should be to best balance risk. A fish purchased from Drivers' Den has a very low probability of having a parasite (never heard of a single instance but sure it has happened). Therefore, in this circumstance, the risk associated with quarantining such a fish outweigh the benefits, particularly if you are dealing with a delicate species or have crampt or sparce quarantine accomodations which will stress the fish or make it difficult to maintain prestine quarantine conditions. Conversely, I have read that all other fish purchased in the trade generally have a 33% probability of having a parasite which certainly suggests that the benefits of quarantine substantially outweigh the risk of not doing so and introducing a parasite into the display. Also, as I did state above, quarantining a Drivers' Den fish may be appropriate when your purpose in doing so is not to avoid introduction of parasites into the display, but it is rather to get a highly stressed fish to eat and acclimate to captivity in a controlled environment free from any aggression from other fish already established in the display.
 
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Disease free is impossible, ich free is possible.

Against external bacteria, I rely on low concentration of pathogen and immunity to develop.

I believe there is no adequate immunity against ich, especially when ich concentration in the water is high, due to existing infestation of any fish in the tank.
 
This is all great discussion and input. Stuart...your thoughts on Diver's Den is where my thinking was headed as well.
 
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