Living With Ich... any advice?

[appellativo]

Quick question on tank transfer. On day 12, are you putting them back into a (clean) display tank or are you putting them back into its 'LAST' transfer and then on day 15 putting them back into a clean display? (I have a clean display to put them into already set up and cycled.)

 

[tmz]

Four 72 hour periods, then on to a cycled qt tank for further observation for other suspected maladies or the display.

 

[appellativo]

I thought so but I wanted to be sure, thanks!

 

[mbauma]

QT and TTM

QT and TTM

So all you do is transfer the fish every 3rd morning from one tank to another?
So set-up tank/add fish, 3rd day, 6th day, 9th day, then 12th day they are clean?
I did read nets arent advised. Just scoop with a container or hands? Is it OK to transfer some water from previous tank?
If Amquel or Prime can be used, this seems like the perfect option for me. It just seems too easy! LOL

So I searched for TTM and can't find the actual steps involved and equipment needed. I have a QT setup now with 3 anthias and will probably treat with prazi. I guess I'm missing how QT and TTM work together, or if they're different options to ensure fish are clean?

If someone can point me to the thread if it exists, it would be much appreciated.

 

[HumbleFish]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996525

 

[mbauma]

Thanks, I did read through that, but I guess I'm looking for just a brief list of steps and how this ties in with my existing new QT that is running now?

I have a 20 gallon long QT with HOB filter, heater, 1 small rock and an ammonia alert with 3 anthias in there(1 male, 2 female lyretails).

They have been in there since Tuesday of this week. I have not used Prazi or anything else at this point. Do I need to get another tank and start over, or should I just continue my QT and start Prazi in another week or so?

Sorry, but there is so much information and I've gone blind reading threads.

Michael.

 

[HumbleFish]

Below is a quote I copy & pasted from the TT thread which briefly outlines how to do it. Two things I do differently: 1) I use vinegar instead of bleach, as the former is less toxic than the latter if you don't rinse well enough. I clean with vinegar ASAP, so the tank/equipment has almost 3 full days to air dry. Air drying is how I "sterilize". 2) I dose with Prazi at the onset of transfers 2 & 4.

TT takes care of ich; Prazi takes care of flukes. So what's left to worry about? Well, there's Brooklynella, marine velvet disease, Uronema marinum, internal parasites and bacterial infections. The good news is all of those have visible symptoms, so you want to QT (and observe) for another month after TT is complete. That is what your permanent QT is for. But it's important to only place the fish in your permanent QT after TT is complete.

Day 1 - fish in QT.
Day 4 - in AM, but before tank lights come on (8-9 AM EST), transfer fish to new tank, matching temp and salinity. Transfer as little water as possible.
Day 7 - repeat.
Day 10 - repeat.
Day 13 - repeat and done.

After transferring, I sterilized all PVC, heaters, filters/powerheads, thermometer, etc with a mild bleach colution. Rinse well. Let dry before next transfer.

P.S. Your final transfer (i.e. Day 13) can be into the permanent QT.

 

[mbauma]

Below is a quote I copy & pasted from the TT thread which briefly outlines how to do it. Two things I do differently: 1) I use vinegar instead of bleach, as the former is less toxic than the latter if you don't rinse well enough. I clean with vinegar ASAP, so the tank/equipment has almost 3 full days to air dry. Air drying is how I "sterilize". 2) I dose with Prazi at the onset of transfers 2 & 4.

TT takes care of ich; Prazi takes care of flukes. So what's left to worry about? Well, there's Brooklynella, marine velvet disease, Uronema marinum, internal parasites and bacterial infections. The good news is all of those have visible symptoms, so you want to QT (and observe) for another month after TT is complete. That is what your permanent QT is for. But it's important to only place the fish in your permanent QT after TT is complete.



P.S. Your final transfer (i.e. Day 13) can be into the permanent QT.

So, I keep my existing QT tank as final QT and get 2 more smaller tanks for doing TTM?

1. Then I move my 3 anthias into the 1st TTM tank and start that process and treat with Prazi using your suggestions?

2. After final tank transfer, I move them into my 20 long QT tank for 30 days and then move into DT?

Thanks again for your patience, but trying to absorb all this.

 

[HumbleFish]

So, I keep my existing QT tank as final QT and get 2 more smaller tanks for doing TTM?

Exactly. You will need 2 of everything for TT: tank, heater, thermometer, small powerhead or airline tubing/air stones for circulation, PVC "caves".

1. Then I move my 3 anthias into the 1st TTM tank and start that process and treat with Prazi using your suggestions?

Yes, just keep a close eye on ammonia. That is enemy #1 when doing TT.

2. After final tank transfer, I move them into my 20 long QT tank for 30 days and then move into DT?

Yes, but for this time you need to completely break down & sterilize the 20 L. Reason being is because any pathogens such as ich the anthias are currently harboring have already contaminated your tank. Moving forward, you shouldn't have to break down/sterilize again so long as you always do TT first before putting them in the 20 L.

 

[mbauma]

Thanks, how big is sufficient for TTM tanks?

 

[HumbleFish]

Thanks, how big is sufficient for TTM tanks?

I use 10 gals; although obviously bigger would allow you to QT more fish at one time. But I've also seen people just use 5 gal buckets to do TT.

With my pair of 10 gals, I've managed to do TT on a pair of dwarf angels together. I also did TT on a 5" foxface. So, while it's less than ideal for bigger fish... it can be done. Just watch out for ammonia. You can use an ammonia reducer, if necessary, such as Amquel or Prime; but I'm leery of doing that in conjunction with Prazipro.

 

[mbauma]

I have a couple of those ammonia alerts handy.

 

[mbauma]

Yes, but for this time you need to completely break down & sterilize the 20 L. Reason being is because any pathogens such as ich the anthias are currently harboring have already contaminated your tank. Moving forward, you shouldn't have to break down/sterilize again so long as you always do TT first before putting them in the 20 L.[/QUOTE]

By break down and sterilize, do I need to use vinegar/bleach on the tank itself? What about the HOB filter? New media and bio wheel?

 

[sillygoose]

I've been reading a lot of the posts and stickies and appreciate everyone's input. So simply removing and treating only fish with symptoms doesn't do any good in the long run? Fallowing the tank is the only thing to "heal" it? I've got a 180 mixed reef and don't happen to have a spare system hanging around. Plus, I've got so much live rock I could never get all of my fish out. Am I just screwed? Worse case, I lose all of my fish buddies and fallow the tank for a couple of months. That's a pretty horrible scenario - especially for my little fish buddies.

 

[HumbleFish]

By break down and sterilize, do I need to use vinegar/bleach on the tank itself? What about the HOB filter? New media and bio wheel?

Everything needs to be cleaned & sterilized. Wipe down with vinegar and then let air dry thoroughly. The reason is because if the fish have ich, then it will still be present in that tank for 72 days even after the fish have left it. So, reintroduction after TT would risk reinfection... essentially nullifying what you accomplished by doing TT.

Like I said before, this should be a one time thing. So long as no fish enters the 20 gal until after they've been thru TT.

 

[mbauma]

Thanks, one last question

Do I need to get a new bio wheel and filter?

 

[HumbleFish]

Thanks, one last question

Do I need to get a new bio wheel and filter?

No, just soak the one you've got in a 10:1 water:vinegar solution for 24 hrs, rinse thoroughly, and then let air dry thoroughly. The latter is the most important step of the sterilization process. Some people even use a blow dryer to expedite the process.

 

[mbauma]

Thanks again humble. I put together this checklist to make sure I have everything, does this look good?

I put together a quick checklist, does this cover everything?

Step # TTM Steps Day Actual Date Completed
1 Clean Final QT if necessary Day zero
2 Prepare TTM tank 1 Day zero
3 Prepare TTM tank 2 Day zero
4 Put fish into tank #1 Day 1
5 Move fish to tank #2(am) Day 4
6 Clean/sanitize tank #1 Day 4
7 Treat with Prazi in tank #2 Day 4
8 Move fish into tank #1(am) Day 7
9 Clean/sanitize tank #2 Day 7
10 Move fish into tank #2(am) Day 10
11 Clean/sanitize tank #1 Day 10
12 Treat with Prazi in tank #2 Day 10
13 Move fish into Final QT Day 13
14 Clean/sanitize tank #2 Day 13
15 Clean/sanitize tank #1 Day 13
16 Move fish into DT Day 43

 

[HumbleFish]

Step # TTM Steps Day Actual Date Completed
1 Clean Final QT if necessary Day zero
2 Prepare TTM tank 1 Day zero
3 Prepare TTM tank 2 Day zero
4 Put fish into tank #1 Day 1
5 Move fish to tank #2(am) Day 4
6 Clean/sanitize tank #1 Day 4
7 Treat with Prazi in tank #2 Day 4
8 Move fish into tank #1(am) Day 7
9 Clean/sanitize tank #2 Day 7
10 Move fish into tank #2(am) Day 10
11 Clean/sanitize tank #1 Day 10
12 Treat with Prazi in tank #2 Day 10
13 Move fish into Final QT Day 13
14 Clean/sanitize tank #2 Day 13
15 Clean/sanitize tank #1 Day 13
16 Move fish into DT Day 43

Looks good. :thumbsup: Only thing I can think to add is increase aeration while treating with Prazi.

 

[appellativo]

i know I read an original paper or article on the tank transfer method. It may have covered this method as well as other methods, but I know I read it somewhere. Can anyone find the link? I can't find it anymore!