Long term success with a harem of bartlett anthias?

[jmaneyapanda]

I kept five in a heavily stocked 120 for a while. I bought all five from a LFS and they were all very small (1.5 "). One turned into a male and they stayed that way for about 2 years. When I got my 210, I put them in, and they all turned male, and started picking each other off, until now I have 0. Perhaps it was totally conincidental, but I think is does have to do with densities and heirarchies. In my 120, they females couldnt avoid the male. But in the 210, there was room, and I think biology defeats common sense. The "urge" to become a male was greater than the sense to stay a female and stay alive.

 

[SDguy]

Great info!

 

[Scuba Dog]

Is there any rule of thumb on stocking densitys for Bartletts? I am planing on stocking a group in one of my 180's late this summer. Just wondering what number is too small or to large?

 

[eaglesrx]

jmaneyapanda's theory makes sense. In Scott Michael's Pocketguide to Reef Fishes, the monograph for Bartlett's states that 5 or more females are needed for a harem. In addition, with more aggressive anthias (i.e. lyretails, bartlett's), you may have to crowd them like cichlids to keep the Bartlett's female. Probably why they stayed female in the 120. Of course, I'm not sure about Just Dave's case. Maybe the exception that proves the rule.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a published statement on the minimum tank size for a harem of bartlett's. I've seen it with lyretails. Just seems like there's more info. on them.

Hopefully, this thread can keep going so we can all get some more insight.

 

[SDguy]

So far this info kind of fits with my observations. I know the common info is that lyretails are aggressive with each other, more so than bartletts. But to be honest (I've had both), my bartlett males were CONSTANTLY on the female...no physical damage...just constant "attention". My lyretail trio are pretty mellow comparatively. Male chases, displays to the females here and there...nothing unusual. Perhaps bartletts do require high densities or, alternateivley, small space to keep the harem.

 

[CarlC]

Any opinions on if they are not breeding by a certain age they change to male?
I seem to remember reading that at Atlantis Aquarium in NY the anthias are breeding in the big reef tank.

Carl

 

[eaglesrx]

Hmm, another variable thrown into the equation.

I honestly forget if Atlantis has a significant number of bartlett's to form a harem in that large of a tank (20,000 gallons?). I remember he's got squarespots and lyretails. Not sure. Anyone from the Long Island Reef Club?

 

[SDguy]

I'd also be curious to know why the GA has so many different anthias in their main reef, but no bartletts. They are in their own exhibit...

I know the Long Beach Aquarium had them with other anthias like squarespot and fatheads, but, IIRC, again, all males.

 

[rhdoug]

I have been thinking about adding some barlett's to my 58 gallon tank but have not done so due to the tank size. Only a pair of ocellaris who never leave their h. crispa anemone, a royal gramma, and a green mandarin in it. All have been in it for over a year, the tank is 8 yrs old. The tank is heavily stocked with mixed coral, and I feed generously with a frozen mix. After reading this thread, it sounds like it may be possible to add them after all. Any thoughts are appreciated...

 

[SDguy]

At this point it seems your guess is as good as anyones. I think assuming you have proper filtration to handle the bioload, and no aggressive fish to intimidate them, a trio might actually do well in this situation.

 

[aztbs]

I wish I could have read this thread 6months ago. Here is a shot of one of my females:

Here is a shot of what all of the females looked like just a month later:

I started with a harem of 7 in a 180g tank. I now have 0 because they violently destroyed each other as all but one turned male. When there was just one male left, it killed the female and then died from injuries. I could not trap them. It was a very frustrating and expensive lesson!

I still love anthias, but I don't think I will buy any more.

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10073964#post10073964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
and no aggressive fish to intimidate them,

Or, alternatively, perhaps some larger fish in there to distract the anthias from picking on each other constantly might be the way to go. Hmmmm....

 

[eaglesrx]

aztbs, did you buy them all together? What about feeding schedule? Any other aggressive fish in the tank?

While yours is just one case report, it's making me re-think my stocking strategy as I was also thinking of doing 7-8+ females in at least a 180 (similar to the lyretail strategy).

In addition, stocking 1 bartlett per 40-50 gallons seems to result in all males, at least from some of the reports in this thread.

Now, I'm not sure. Maybe there's other contributing factors other than # of fish per gallons ratio in order to keep a harem long term (i.e. aggressive fish)?

I remember reading on one of the threads that one guy's 3 purple tangs started schooling after he put in a sohal.

Come on anthia-experienced reefers, let's hear your thoughts!!

 

[aztbs]

Yes I bought them all at once. The whole tank was fed at the same time once a day without fail and often twice a day when I could. They all ate very well and seemed healthy. No other large or aggressive fish. I have a very young female lamarck's angel that would nip at them if they came to her territory, but never anything serious.

Sometimes I would think things were going to settle out. They found different places in the tank to hide from each other. But then I would turn on the light one morning and find an almost dead fish with the whole tail pretty much bit off and the other anthias picking at it no matter where it tried to hide. They always teamed up on one at a time.

I imagine that there are probably so many factors involved. This is a very interesting thread.

 

[SDguy]

Another point to mention, IME, they are very overtly aggressive to other sick anthias.

 

[just dave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10068402#post10068402 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
Eeek!, so only one person so far?

Great pics dave, BTW. Sucks that you lost them...actually, sucks more that your tank cracked

I didn't loose anything. All the animals reside in other peoples aquariums now.

 

[SDguy]

bump for any more experiences....

 

[CarlC]

Not Bartlett related but I am just about at the six month mark with my dispar. I still have two male and two female. I started with two males and 6 females but had 4 girls jump within the first few weeks. No sign the females are changing. I added two female lori's to the group and the male dispar keep them close just like the dispar females.

Carl

Carl

 

[eaglesrx]

Is it possible to buy a group of bartlett's where the male is already established (i.e. larger) and the females are smaller?

I'm just wondering if you use the lower density strategy (i.e. 1 anthia per 40-50 gallons per Scott Michael's book), buy a group with 1 supermale already established, and finally have a "boss" for the tank to keep everyone in line (i.e. aggressive tang, like a purple or established yellow), you might increase your chances of keeping a mini harem rather than all of them turning male? I think bradleyj uses the low density strategy, has a bluethroat trigger (please correct me if I'm wrong on this one). However, I'm not sure if when you bought them, if there were all the same size.

Just some thoughts.

 

[just dave]

I kept Princess anthias ( P. smithvanizi) with my Bartletts and the Bartletts did not "like" them. I have had Bartletts and Redfins (P. dispar) together and they will coexist fine. The Redfins will even take on the coloration of the Bartletts.