looking for design approval/help
- Thread starter inkmates
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oceanparadise1
In Memoriam
only thing is i would NOT use bio balls nitrate factorys
oceanparadise1
In Memoriam
hmm sounds good to me then! thats just what others have told me but **** if it aint broke dont fix it right!
oceanparadise1
In Memoriam
ralph u can come live with me if u wife kicks ya out always room for a fellow reefer we have a nice sized extra bed room u can have as many tanks as u want lol
A trickle filter with bioballs or any other media is a mistake for a reef tank. The area where the media is kept is by design a high oxygen zone because of the fast running water.
It is great for the bacteria that use oxygen and breakdown ammonia and nitrite to form nitrate. The nitrate moves out into the water where it can fuel nuisance algae. Live rock and? or deep sand has the oygen loving bacteria near it's surface but also has deep zones where the water that seeps in has been stripped of oxygen. These oxygen poor (anoxic) zones is where the bacteria that break down nitrate and release nitrogen thrive. By having the nitrate produced in the trickle filter or bioball chamber it doen't get to where it needs to be and the efficiency of the bio filter( live rock and substrate) are reduced.
That's my comment on the design. GOod Luck with it.
It is great for the bacteria that use oxygen and breakdown ammonia and nitrite to form nitrate. The nitrate moves out into the water where it can fuel nuisance algae. Live rock and? or deep sand has the oygen loving bacteria near it's surface but also has deep zones where the water that seeps in has been stripped of oxygen. These oxygen poor (anoxic) zones is where the bacteria that break down nitrate and release nitrogen thrive. By having the nitrate produced in the trickle filter or bioball chamber it doen't get to where it needs to be and the efficiency of the bio filter( live rock and substrate) are reduced.
That's my comment on the design. GOod Luck with it.
SkiFletch
New member
Whoa back the truck up here, do you want a bunch of water on your floor?
. If you want to run seperate fuges/frag tanks they HAVE to be above the level of the sump. What you've pictured above leaves your frag tank at the lowest point in the system. Therefore not if, but when you have a power outage, all the extra water from your display tank, sump, and fuge will drain into the frag tank, overflowing it, and putting water on the floor 
. Many members here have similar setups to what you're describing, but they all have the fuge/frag tanks above the sump. It's also a good idea to drive them with some Tees off the return line from the main sump pump and ball valves for control. That make sense?
cardiffgiant
Active member
I think that Tom and Mike hit the main points that I have.
It isn't that bioballs and canisters aren't effective for filtration; it's that they aren't generally the solution that folks have long term success with in reef environments. In the nitrogen cycle (at a very high level) ammonia is broken down to nitrate by aerobic bacteria, and nitrate is broken down to gas by anaerobic bacteria. The high aeration that is typically caused by canisters and bioballs produces nitrate faster than the anaerobic bacteria in your system can break it down. The overwhelming of the nitrogen cycle with nitrate in the reef environment is why people refer to bioballs and canisters as nitrate factories.
As Mike said, daisy chaining multiple vessels is verrrry high risk. I would consider elevating the additional vessels or trying to use a larger sump tank with multiple chambers.
I would also recommend keeping the RDSB and refugium separate. They achieve a similar goal with different environments. Refugiums do well with a lower flow than a RDSB, and use photosynthesis in the macros to take nitrate and phosphate out of the water. RDSBs a sand bed full of anaerobic bacteria to remove nitrate from water that moves fast enough to prevent solids from settling and building up on the sand. The presence of algae usually traps detritus and overwhelms the sand bed. RDSB is usually dark with high turnover, while refugium is lit with lower turnover.
It isn't that bioballs and canisters aren't effective for filtration; it's that they aren't generally the solution that folks have long term success with in reef environments. In the nitrogen cycle (at a very high level) ammonia is broken down to nitrate by aerobic bacteria, and nitrate is broken down to gas by anaerobic bacteria. The high aeration that is typically caused by canisters and bioballs produces nitrate faster than the anaerobic bacteria in your system can break it down. The overwhelming of the nitrogen cycle with nitrate in the reef environment is why people refer to bioballs and canisters as nitrate factories.
As Mike said, daisy chaining multiple vessels is verrrry high risk. I would consider elevating the additional vessels or trying to use a larger sump tank with multiple chambers.
I would also recommend keeping the RDSB and refugium separate. They achieve a similar goal with different environments. Refugiums do well with a lower flow than a RDSB, and use photosynthesis in the macros to take nitrate and phosphate out of the water. RDSBs a sand bed full of anaerobic bacteria to remove nitrate from water that moves fast enough to prevent solids from settling and building up on the sand. The presence of algae usually traps detritus and overwhelms the sand bed. RDSB is usually dark with high turnover, while refugium is lit with lower turnover.
