Loosing the fight with algae, help with ID and ideas how to beat it.

[fairladyZ]

SO for the last about year i've been battling this algae. I went thru a period of time where I did neglect my tank and this algae took a foot hold and will not give up. I beat it once only for it to instantly come back with a vengeance.

The first time I got the outbreak after I decided I was going to beat it I took to adding alot of sea hares. I would say about 8 total, of the 8 added only 2 ever did work until one vanished and the other got sucked into a powerhead. The final nail was manual removal. A friend and I went thru and plucked out as much as we possibly could until there was not much left other than unreachable spots and just spread out tufts that had been thinned. It finally all went away, ONLY to be then replaced by aiptasia and bubble algae. I then brought in a bunch of peppermint shrimp, copperband, and emerald crabs. They all made short work of the algae. But as they were nearing completion I noticed the HA was coming back.

Round 2:

I've done manual removal, I've tried 2 more sea hares, I dosed API AlgaeFIX for a month, I've been dosing alk and calcium trying to spike them. I'm now dosing Tech M to raise mag aswell. I leave the refugium light off because it was taking over the refugium but has since died off and there is little left in there.

I've lost alot of the snails due to the algaefix i believe. And after me and a friend have both done manual removal twice in the last couple weeks it is coming back and not sure i can take it.

Paramaters

210 Gallon
Temp 79
PH 8.5
Alk 9.5
Calcium 400
Mag 1280
Nitrates 8
Phosphate less than .03 according to iDip

I have removed all the corals I could. There are 7 fish in the tank, alot of which are grazers and would hope would eat it but they wont. Magnificent foxface, white tail bristletooth tang, starry blenny.

I have added a GFO reactor and have had that running for the last month aswell.

I'm coming to the point where i'm going to spike my mag, alk, calcium. Add in 2 more sea hares, 30 turbo snails, and then cover my tank for a week with a blanket.

Or just pull it out and dry the tank and either break it down or restart with new rock and sand.

So what say you guys? Any help in any direction would be appreciated. I have my own RO/DI and have kept up on that. It gets bi-weekly 40-50 gallon water changes from a LFS that maintains it for me and helps pull out the algae by hand and scrubs my rocks that are able to be pulled out. Most are bonded togeather.

pictures.

 

[Hitch08]

Wow. Sorry for your troubles. A couple questions - how big is the tank? What kind of light are you using for it and how long are you running it? What was the phosphate level before you started the GFO?

I would consider adding some urchins. Depending on what the phosphate levels used to be, I would probably run the GFO for a while longer and see it if can catch up.

Nearly everyone in here has more knowledge than I. Someone will come along with great advice.

 

[DSMreefer]

Looks like it mostly on your rocks. I've read other posts about algae outbreaks. They say that rock can absorb phosphates and as your tank goes from high phosphate levels back down to low levels, they will leech out the stored phosphates until equilibrium is reach with the water column. There's a way to "cook" the phosphates out them but I'm not sure how that works. I'm no expert on this matter but hopefully someone who is will chime in.

 

[crocogator106]

You might try dosing (drip method) LC. It should remove all the phosphates and knock back that algae.

 

[fairladyZ]

tank is a 210 gallon, running radion pro gen 2 lights. I used to keep them on for about 14 hrs out of the day, then cut back to all blues and only about 4 hours of light a day. Now am currently running them at 18k from noon till about 8 then they dim down.

I've never kept a strict test for phosphate as EVERY time ive ever tested it regardless of algae or not it's been 0. With API test kit 0, with red sea test kit 0, with iDip Photometer it just says low which means its undetectable below .03

The rock was all new, never used before and a dry base rock that is painted purple and seeded with biolife that kicks in once it gets wet. My buddy that runs the LFS uses it, and i personally know of atleast 5 other people that setup their tank with this rock and have not had algae issues like this.

Now when i did neglect my tank my RO/DI unit was putting rather high TDS water into my tank, which i guess maybe binded with the rock? but even before that happened i had this outbreak before i neglected my tank, the first outbreak is kinda what got me to throw my hands up and give up for a short time.

crocgator106, what is LC? I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.

I have some redsea no4 pox remover. Should i start dosing that with the GFO aswell? I don't like the idea of dosing ALL these things but if it works i'll dose it all.

Alk, Cal, Mag, n04pox, algaefix

 

[DSMreefer]

lanthanum chloride (lc). Use with caution and do lots of research. I've read horror stories on it but I've also read a lot of people having success also. I would just make sure to do your homework before using it, as with anything in this hobby.

 

[crocogator106]

Try searching posts on Seaklear. Its sold in pool supply places. There is a good thread about dosing it while curing dry rock. Just bare in mind you'll be dosing in a tank so you'll need to drip into a filter sock. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2049855&highlight=pukani

 

[wildman926]

You have an excess nutrient issue.

I can't tell by your pics if it is hair algae or bryopsis, but it looks more like bryopsis.

Short term, if it is hair algae, use API's Algaefix Marine. HERE is a thread on RC about it's success with eliminating hair algae.

Long term, consider launching an algae turf scrubber, and grow the algae where you want to, to remove the excess nutrients. HERE is a thread on RC about it, from DIY units to ones made by RC members (which I use).

I use both an ATS and a chaeto reactor. The chaeto reactor is a converted bio pellet reactor. I have not see hair algae, or any type of nuisance algae in the dt for almost 2 years now using them both. Here are pics of them -

ATS is black box top left -

Chaeto reactor -

 

[fairladyZ]

Thank you for the reply. That is a very nice setup. I did look into algae scrubbers lastnight i'm just worried about space on where i would put it.

Here's is what i've done so far this morning. I did my normal dose of 50ml of alk. and did 50ml of tech m. I then covered the entire 210 with blankets and shut off the lights. I forwarned the LFS that come monday it will need a very big water change.

I did leave the sump area uncovered (my stand doesn't have doors on it) and am wondering should i turn the refugium light back on in hopes that the HA will leave the DT and grow down there where it is easy to get to and i can pull the rocks out to clean them off? I can get a ball of chaeto to put back in there as whats left in there is pretty much dead and has been run over by HA that has thinned since i turned off the light on the refugium some time ago, it's only been getting ambient light during the day.

Also to feed the fish do I just uncover the tank for 15 minutes or so and feed them with the lights on then cover back up?

I think i'll also plumb in another GFO reactor and maybe throw some chemi-clean in the filter sock area to help export nutrients as this stuff dies hopefully.

 

[FishyFishy69]

When this happened to me, I started carbon dosing (vinegar). This stripped my rocks of all algae in a month (along with a large clean up crew). And it has yet to come back. Maybe something you could try, along with your other regimens.

 

[wildman926]

Covering the tank is a bandaid, and not addressing the real issue, which is excess nutrients. You need to select a method to remove it, and keep it gone. What I replied with, is what I did to overcome my issue. Over time, the rocks and sand absorb the phosphates and nitrates. Then at some point, when they are saturated, they will leach it back out into the water column, just like a sponge does when full. That is what you are seeing.

What I replied with earlier, is a logical, step by step method to rid the hair algae, and excess nutrients. If you don't take this approach, you will be chasing this problem for quite some time, until you go this route, or you give up. There are hundreds of threads with the same problem, so your problem is not unique.

Your big water change is a positive first step. Putting the light back on the sump is also.

But, if you read those threads I provided, or even skim the posts with pics in them, you will see what I laid out works. I hope this helps.

 

[cincyjim]

I've been battling HA since October 2015. I believe I know which food product I was using that created the excessive nutrients in the tank which in my belief created the nitrates to allow the HA to grow. I haven't used this food product in about 2 months and my HA is going away. I figure with the water changes, manual removal, GFO, and using AlgaeFix Marine that I should be rid of it by May. Some places I can't get to unless I remove the rock which I really don't think I should because of the corals that are on them. I lost a fair number of LPS and SPS because of the HA... frustrating to say the least. My case of HA was so bad that it literal killed the GSP on a solitary rock... now that is bad!!! My fish and CUC didn't seem to be affected and like you, none of the fish took any interest in the HA. I also used the KentTech M for a couple of months but I didn't see any noticeable difference. My water testing during this time showed 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates (Red Sea test kits). Obviously I had them or I wouldn't have HA which was masking the 0 levels. AlgaeFix Marine seems to be the tool of choice but it is a very very slow process. Tonight will be my 23rd dosing of the product. I'm using 10ml every third day for my total water volume which is about 75-80 gallons with the fuge and sump. Manual removal is a must. I try to spend time each evening removing it.

My current attack plan is shorter light schedule (7 hours a day, no night light cycle), 20% water changes, AlgaeFix Marine, NoPox (3 ml a day), GFO, manual removal, wet skimming, and I quit using the food product that I believe was causing this.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to let you know that nothing happens fast in this hobby, so patience is a must. You also have to try and find the source that is causing the nitrates and this may take a month or better (elimination process). This is why I've been battling this since October as I wouldn't thought the food product I was using would have caused this (in my opinion).

Best of luck!
Jim

 

[fairladyZ]

you did just remind me that i have some redsea nopox. I'll start dosing that again

 

[Grandlotus]

Looks like there is no CUC or Tangs in this tank.

Might want to add those...they eat algae.

 

[GimpyFin]

Sorry to hear, hair algae can be a stinker. It sounds like you are on the right track, though.

+1 on urchines to help with the cleanup (Black longspines really mow through algae.) If you have already removed corals, you don't have to worry about them accidentally getting damaged as the urchin does his thing.

Growing algae elsewhere in one form or another as others have suggested helps. I don't have a scrubber, but my fuge w/ sand, rock, and chaeto seems to work ok.

Personally, I would steer away from Lanthanum chloride (LC, or products like Phosphat-E.) Not because it doesn't work at neutralizing phosphate, but it stays around as an inactive phosphate and doesn't get exported from your tank (Minus some that maybe gets removed from skimming.)

Biopellets like ecobak/plus can also work great at knocking down nutrients, when setup properly. They seem to work best with alkalinity around 7-8.5. They are great at removing Nitrate in your tank (Which can reduce their effect on phosphate once it's bottomed out), so dosing an amino acid along with them can help.


You have a lot of options to hopefully knock it out and keep it gone. Good luck!

 

[wildman926]

I also lost a lot of corals due to the hair algae bloom. It was not a fun time then. after 8 months of use, biopellets did not do a thing for me, that is why I use hair and macro algae to remove the excess nutrients. It just flat out works.

 

[reefgeezer]

From the picture of the tank, it appears the rocks don't have a lot of life on them except coralline & hair algae. Maybe an acid bath for the rocks is in order to reduce the leaching phosphate. Once that is done, carbon dosing with a good skimmer and/or an ATS might keep it from coming back.

 

[Devaji108]

+1 on the ATS if your worried about space look in to an up flow scrubber..there pretty small...but I hear they get the job done.

not that I am an expert but I dont think that is HA. either way you want it gone. I think acid washing the rocks is your last steep. IMHO try the scrubbers reactors etc. 1st..

good luck!

 

[Sk8r]

For a 210, it would probably take 2 double Phosban reactors running new media monthly to knock it. The phosphate is right there in your photograph: in the algae. Something eats it---if you don't have anything to bind it and uptake it, it gets poo'ed right back into the tank. An urchin (tripneustes gratilla is a good species, aka the 'collector' urchin) could help. But it needs something to gather up the phosphate it releases.

 

[cincyjim]

I'm going to look into the algae scrubber. I shouldn't have a problem growing it as it grows in my fuge right now. I've had the fuge lights off for the past few days to kill it. Or maybe I allow it to grow in my fuge so it doesn't grow in my tank. Obviously I'm confused on this so I really need to research this before I do anything.