Losing My Corals

[chatyak]

Please help. I don't know what the issue is here. Only some of my SPS are having their tissue go away... albeit at a snails pace... its been at least 2 months for what you see in the pictures to have happened.

Salinity normally at 1.025 with calibrated refractometer... use reef crystals. Nitrates et al. all in check... I use high capacity GFO from BRS... normal water changes etc.... no drastic changes in water chemistry.... other SPS doing fine... see images attached. :strange:

 

[chatyak]

It should be noted that the larger acro is where there was a hairy green crab, which I had removed - however it has been gone for some time..

Here are more pictures:

Now here are a couple of the healthy ones.

Thoughts?

 

[REEF SMAC]

What is your Alk level and how consistant is it?

What is your Phosphate level?

What kind of flow are they getting?

 

[chatyak]

What is your Alk level and how consistant is it?

What is your Phosphate level?

What kind of flow are they getting?

I do my best to do small weekly water changes and the ALK on the water bin is usually:

dKH 11
CA 500-550
MG 1500-1600


I only have about 5-8 SPS corals, and some LPS... so I don't dose daily... but perhaps I should? I would have thought that the ALK change over the course of a week was minimal... then with small water changes, not a drastic effect.

What do you suggest for course of action? Measure dKH and then measure again in 5-6 days to see how much it is dropping each day?


Phosphates I have not tested in a long time. I have the Hanna photometer with the digital readout and it has always read 0... so "undetectable" or super minimal. I did have a cyano problem a couple of months ago but have reversed that and its 99.5% gone. Had a bacteria unbalance in the tank.

I have two MP40w ES's. One on either side of the tank. They are nice.. but truth be told I think I would add controllable Tunze's in the future. Perhaps I should throw in some Koralias too?

 

[rogerwilco357]

wow i have the same problem today on a millepora and on an acro like yours the yellow one not sure if the gfo has something to do with it but i just put new gfo in also two weeks ago and this started shortly after but my phosphates are high also out of 8 sps only 2 have been affected hope you find out the problem will keep track of this post.

 

[daz the reefo]

look like signs of alkalinity swing stress to me.

 

[Bevin]

How much gac do you use? I stopped using it all together and have never had that problem again.

 

[Met3112]

Check to see if there is anything eating them. I think your other acros would be stressing if it was alk swings, though stable alk is very important.

Look for asterina stars, especially the blue ones. I have caught these chowing down on my pocillaporas and seriatoporas. And for the person who is about to deny that: No they were not eating the dead flesh they actually eat coral.

Have you dipped any of these to see if anything fell off?

 

[REEF SMAC]

I do my best to do small weekly water changes and the ALK on the water bin is usually:

dKH 11
CA 500-550
MG 1500-1600


I only have about 5-8 SPS corals, and some LPS... so I don't dose daily... but perhaps I should? I would have thought that the ALK change over the course of a week was minimal... then with small water changes, not a drastic effect.

What do you suggest for course of action? Measure dKH and then measure again in 5-6 days to see how much it is dropping each day?


Phosphates I have not tested in a long time. I have the Hanna photometer with the digital readout and it has always read 0... so "undetectable" or super minimal. I did have a cyano problem a couple of months ago but have reversed that and its 99.5% gone. Had a bacteria unbalance in the tank.

I have two MP40w ES's. One on either side of the tank. They are nice.. but truth be told I think I would add controllable Tunze's in the future. Perhaps I should throw in some Koralias too?

It's good to know what the levels are in the water bin, but what are the levels in your DT? If your DT Alk is running on the low side at say 7.0 (and it might be at 6.0) and your doing water changes with water that is at 11.0 then maybe it's swinging your levels a little too much. Low Alk coupled with a new batch of GFO could definately cause what you're seeing. You might want to back off the GFO use, or at least lower the amount, as you might be overstripping your water with it. Especially if your Phosphate is already at 0.
Are you carbon dosing at all?
I would just for a while, be checking your Alk everyday, for a few days, just to get an idea what's going on. Check it before a water change and then the next day after a water change. Check it berfore you dose and then a while after. Check it 12 hours after you do a GFO change.

It's the fast daily changes that are the problem not the changes that take place over 5-6 days.

I agree with daz on this one.

 

[chatyak]

It's good to know what the levels are in the water bin, but what are the levels in your DT? If your DT Alk is running on the low side at say 7.0 (and it might be at 6.0) and your doing water changes with water that is at 11.0 then maybe it's swinging your levels a little too much. Low Alk coupled with a new batch of GFO could definately cause what you're seeing. You might want to back off the GFO use, or at least lower the amount, as you might be overstripping your water with it. Especially if your Phosphate is already at 0.
Are you carbon dosing at all?
I would just for a while, be checking your Alk everyday, for a few days, just to get an idea what's going on. Check it before a water change and then the next day after a water change. Check it berfore you dose and then a while after. Check it 12 hours after you do a GFO change.

It's the fast daily changes that are the problem not the changes that take place over 5-6 days.

I agree with daz on this one.

To the fellow who asked about predators... I have looked at the corals and not noticed anything that is eating them ( granted I don't have a microscope).

My total water is around 146 gallons.. and for the GFO I used about 30% of a Phosban 550. Change it out every 4-6 weeks. I wouldn't have thought the phosphate is at 0, due to a minimal trace of cyano left, but perhaps all the available phosphate has been used.

I used to use ROX carbon from BRS as well - but haven't in some time mainly because I couldn't afford it at the moment.

When I do my water changes - I can only change out about 10 gallons at one time, unless I do that a few times in one day (after waiting a few mins for water from sump to get circulated around). So unless I did a lot of water changes at once, I'm not sure how much of an effect the alk would have.

Also - could you explain why to go easy on the GFO - when lower phosphates is what we are aiming for? Are you saying that we should leave some phosphates in the water column? I understand that we don't want the water column to be bare of nutrients, but is not phosphate one of the "enemies" of the home aquaria?

I will go test my water params for the display tank now.


Also - should I dip these corals for a few mins? I have two little fishies revive solution.

 

[chatyak]

Low Alk coupled with a new batch of GFO could definately cause what you're seeing. You might want to back off the GFO use, or at least lower the amount, as you might be overstripping your water with it.

Could you explain why a new batch of GFO is a bad thing? Because it is a sudden shock of lower phosphates - this in turn affects the corals?

 

[chatyak]

Okay I have some interesting news to report!

Water Bin Params
---------------
dKH: 11.3
CA: 530 ppm
MG: 1500 ppm
PO4: Not Tested
SG: 1.0265



Display Tank Params
-------------------
dKH: 6.3
CA: 425 ppm
MG: 1410 ppm
PO4: .09 ppm
1.0230



So now the question is - should I be dosing daily or are weekly water changes enough? I think the course of action now is to get the dKH and CA up (and MG) in the display, and then wait 3-4 days and see how far it is dropped. Then I can divide by 3-4 to see what the daily dose is.

I am leaving in 9 days for just over a week though. Would like to get this sorted before then. :sad1:

 

[mthomp]

Could you explain why a new batch of GFO is a bad thing? Because it is a sudden shock of lower phosphates - this in turn affects the corals?

When you add GFO to your system the GFO will lower your alk pretty drastically. Something I would check is the TDS of your RO water. I had something like this happen to me and that was the culprit.

 

[chatyak]

When you add GFO to your system the GFO will lower your alk pretty drastically. Something I would check is the TDS of your RO water. I had something like this happen to me and that was the culprit.

I have read that the effect is minimal with regards to alkalinity being lowered by GFO. Why do you say drastically? How much of a change would GFO normally reduce? 1-2 on the dKH?

Also - is the reduction in dKH ongoing or simply when you introduce a new batch of GFO?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With those SPS corals (which are high alk users) and no alkalinity additions other than water changes, it is zero surprise that the alk has dropped to 6 dKH, and also not a surprise that the corals are not doing well at 6 dKH, which is very stressful.

Alkalinity additions are a must for SPS tanks. Water changes cannot ever maintain alkalinity in such a system unless you are changing on the order of 20-50% daily.

I show that here:

Figure 23. Alkalinity as a function of time when performing very large daily water changes of 0% (no changes), 5%, 10%, 15% and 30% of the total volume EACH DAY. In this example, alkalinity is present at 4 meq/L (11 dKH) at the start and is depleted at a low rate of 0.2 meq/L per day.

Figure 24. Alkalinity as a function of time when performing very large daily water changes of 0% (no changes), 15%, 30% and 50% of the total volume EACH DAY. In this example, alkalinity is present at 4 meq/L (11 dKH) at the start and is depleted at a moderately high rate of 1 meq/L per day.

 

[MammothReefer]

I would either dose daily or better yet set up some sort of automated system to do it for you. Be it dosing pumps, or a calcium reactor. SPS require very minimal movement in alk (which can't be achieved without consistent calcium/mag). Ideally I shoot for less then .2dkh swing a day. I'm sure less is even better but I find even the smallest variance in testing can fluctuate by .1dkh or so.

 

[chatyak]

Dosing pumps will be installed next week.

 

[dowtish]

Your salinity is low as well. I would shoot for 1.025-26. Also, what kind of lights do you have over the tank?

 

[chatyak]

Your salinity is low as well. I would shoot for 1.025-26. Also, what kind of lights do you have over the tank?

I try to keep it at 1.025.. just got low on me... letting it rise on its own with no ATO for the time being.

I use T5 lighting

 

[REEF SMAC]

Could you explain why a new batch of GFO is a bad thing? Because it is a sudden shock of lower phosphates - this in turn affects the corals?

It's not so much the shock of lower phosphates as it is the shock of lower Alk that the GFO seems to cause.
Could be the phosphates too I guess if your system were already at zero.

Okay I have some interesting news to report!


Display Tank Params
-------------------
dKH: 6.3
CA: 425 ppm
MG: 1410 ppm
PO4: .09 ppm
1.0230

So here is what I would guess has been why your corals are unhappy.
Your Alk is way lower than I would want it. I like to shoot somewhere between 8 - 9.
Your PO4 is a little high. Not deathly high but stressful. I would get it at least under .05.
Your salinity is a little low. I seem to have better results with it closer to 1.026.

I have read that the effect is minimal with regards to alkalinity being lowered by GFO. Why do you say drastically? How much of a change would GFO normally reduce? 1-2 on the dKH?

Also - is the reduction in dKH ongoing or simply when you introduce a new batch of GFO?

Depending how much GFO relative to your system size, the quality of the GFO, and even the reactor flow rate, would change how much the Alk level is affected.
If your Alk is already too low (which seems to be the case with yours) and then you throw in some new GFO and pull the Alk down even lower. It's probably not gonna go to well for your corals.

The Alk drop with new GFO seems to just last a few days for me. After that is seems to be at the normal level.

Sounds like you need to get you levels up and then find a way to keep them a lot more consistant. Which will probably be at least daily dosing.