Lost fish to copper?

[ThisCityIsDead]

Hello everyone. I came home to 3 dead fish.

My two tangs had ich and so I transferred them, along with my two clowns and foxface, to a 30G tank. I added some seachem cupramine. I waited 48 hours to add the other part of the dose. I also tested the copper and the level was .15. This was all last night, and now I have the two tangs and foxfish dead:/. The tank is a bit cloudy. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to maintenance it. Do I replace a certain amount of water and do I reduce the copper levels or do I keep it the same.

The two clowns are still in there and are breathing heavily.

Please help.

 

[mattcoug]

Is this a fully cycled QT tank? 5 fish in 30 gal will build ammonia up pretty fast

 

[ThisCityIsDead]

No. It was just put together 5 days ago.

I replaced 5 gallons. Do I need to bring the copper levels back?

 

[tehachappi32]

When the fish are breathing fast, I would stop the treatment. If you push it further, they are likely to go. I normally start low and raise the chemical level slowly giving the fish time to adjust.

 

[ThisCityIsDead]

When the fish are breathing fast, I would stop the treatment. If you push it further, they are likely to go. I normally start low and raise the chemical level slowly giving the fish time to adjust.

How much of the treatment do you give them? I gave them 60 drops the first day then again after 48hrs. That's what the instructions said to do.

I just checked my parameters and they're 0. For and oh is 8. Fish are hiding. The water is still cloudy even after 20% water change...:/.

 

[GT3000XX]

Cupramine

Cupramine

Based on the directions for Cupramine you should add 16 drops per 10.5 gallons. Based on 30 gallons that would be around 45 drops. Seems like you may have raised the level too high using 60 drops. I would always test before putting in the 2nd dose, especially in a bare QT tank. Also I would verify your test kit is reading correctly 0.15 seems low, based on the dosage you put in...
Good Luck

PS if you are using Seachem's test kit they include a reference range sample that can be used to verify the kit is reading properly.

 

[ThisCityIsDead]

Based on the directions for Cupramine you should add 16 drops per 10.5 gallons. Based on 30 gallons that would be around 45 drops. Seems like you may have raised the level too high using 60 drops. I would always test before putting in the 2nd dose, especially in a bare QT tank. Also I would verify your test kit is reading correctly 0.15 seems low, based on the dosage you put in...

Good Luck



PS if you are using Seachem's test kit they include a reference range sample that can be used to verify the kit is reading properly.

Yes. I think I over dosed them. I added fresh water with no copper. Hoping that lowers the dose.

I can't really distinguish the color. The blue is very similar.

Oh! i don't know how to use the reference sample. When I stored the rod with the powder, it didn't change color.

 

[GT3000XX]

Cupramine

Cupramine

Here are the directions for the reference test:::

Reference test
The proper performance of this kit may be validated by running a test in the normal manner except that the reference
sample is used in place of aquarium sample. It is not necessary to run a reference test to use this kit. The only time you
might choose to run a reference test is if you have cause to believe the test is giving incorrect results. If you run a test using
the reference sample and obtain the correct result (based on the known reference value provided) then you know the test
is giving correct results. To run a reference test use the Copper Reference as the sample in a copper test. Reference value
is 0.5 mg/L. Use 3 drops of Copper Reagent 2 in Step 2 when testing reference.

 

[ThisCityIsDead]

Here are the directions for the reference test:::



Reference test

The proper performance of this kit may be validated by running a test in the normal manner except that the reference

sample is used in place of aquarium sample. It is not necessary to run a reference test to use this kit. The only time you

might choose to run a reference test is if you have cause to believe the test is giving incorrect results. If you run a test using

the reference sample and obtain the correct result (based on the known reference value provided) then you know the test

is giving correct results. To run a reference test use the Copper Reference as the sample in a copper test. Reference value

is 0.5 mg/L. Use 3 drops of Copper Reagent 2 in Step 2 when testing reference.

Mine says to use 2 drops.

Thanks!. It looks like the water change I did helped because it is a bit lighter than the sample. It seems to be at around .3/.35

 

[ThisCityIsDead]

Clowns are still breathing heavily, but I hope the water change helps the dose wear off a bit...:/

 

[ThRoewer]

Against what parasites are you treating these fish?

 

[ThisCityIsDead]

Against what parasites are you treating these fish?

Ich.

I'm still not sure about:

Transferring the fish back to the display tank and how to do it. Would I acclimate the fish with display water? I know I should never contaminate the dp tabk with the qr water especially when carrying copper. Howdy I do this...?

 

[Deinonych]

Ich.

I'm still not sure about:

Transferring the fish back to the display tank and how to do it. Would I acclimate the fish with display water? I know I should never contaminate the dp tabk with the qr water especially when carrying copper. Howdy I do this...?

When I transfer fish from QT to DT, I use a vessel filled with DT water to transport them between tanks (a bowl works fine for this). As long as temperature and salinity match, they can make the move without any sort of acclimation.

 

[ThRoewer]

Ich.

I'm still not sure about:

Transferring the fish back to the display tank and how to do it. Would I acclimate the fish with display water? I know I should never contaminate the dp tabk with the qr water especially when carrying copper. Howdy I do this...?

For Ich I wouldn't expose my fish to an immune suppressant poison like copper since there are much better and less stressful options like hyposalinity, TTM or a combination of both.

 

[Deinonych]

for ich i wouldn't expose my fish to an immune suppressant poison like copper since there are much better and less stressful options like hyposalinity, ttm or a combination of both.

+1

 

[ThisCityIsDead]

For Ich I wouldn't expose my fish to an immune suppressant poison like copper since there are much better and less stressful options like hyposalinity, TTM or a combination of both.

I'm not comfortable with the hyposalinity. I know if I messed up on dosage for copper, I will defiantly mess up on hypo.

Update: fish are doing great!. The clownfish even started attacking my fingers again when I put my hand in the water to siphon.


Why do they do that? (Attack: swim fas and nips my fingers. It doesn't hurt, but it is a strong pinch. The bigger clown does this.)

 

[ThRoewer]

I'm not comfortable with the hyposalinity. I know if I messed up on dosage for copper, I will defiantly mess up on hypo.
...

Hyposalinity is one of the easiest things to do - for sure easier than keeping copper levels right for two to four weeks.

To use hyposaliniy as treatment against Ich all you need is a salinity refractometer (something anybody with a reef tank should have) because in this case you need to maintain a salinity between 13 ppt and 15 ppt (1.009 to 1.01) for at least 10 days, better two weeks. After you have adjusted the salinity you mark the water level on the treatment tank and just make sure you add regularly freshwater to keep that level.

To use hyposaline condition to relieve stress for your fish during TTM you do not need to kill the parasite through low salinity. Therefore you don't necessarily need to go that low and have to be overly precise (though I would still do both). A specific gravity of 1.015, measured with a simple swingarm checker is good enough to help the fish cope with the stress and the infection.

I would suggest you should do a little research on what copper does to your fish.
My biggest concern would be that it significantly lowers the fish's immune resistance which could open the door for opportunistic bacteria (internally or externally) or viruses.

...The clownfish even started attacking my fingers again when I put my hand in the water to siphon.


Why do they do that? (Attack: swim fas and nips my fingers. It doesn't hurt, but it is a strong pinch. The bigger clown does this.)

They are protecting their territory against intruders - in this case your hand. But they wouldn't shy away from attacking a diver. It is quite normal behavior.
And if you have a species from the clarkii or frenatus complex I would be more careful - they have sharp teeth, strong jaws and know where to hit you most efficiently - between the fingers.
I had a pairs of A. clarkii and A. melanopus that bit me so hard that it was bleeding. But ever fully grown percula or ocellaris can inflict some pain.

 

[NarakuAulonocar]

Just a thought, did you add water conditioner during the copper?

I read somewhere that the conditioners can cause cupramine to change to a more toxic form.

I used coppersafe with conditioner and didn't have issues. (This was before I knew)