Lots of Evaporation...low PH

[Jgoal55]

My 38 nano is open top, with a lot of movement and evaporates quite a bit of water daily; somewhere around 2-3 gallons.

Thanks to Gatoralum and after exhausting some other possibilities, I've come to the conclusion that the 7.0 FW coming into the tank (which has somewhere close to a 20g operating water volume) is really affecting/lowering my PH.

I finally set up my doser about a week ago with Calc and Alk and that hasn't affected my PH at all. It was the same without the dosing and has stayed the same with the doser (as I expected); steady but low; 7.75-7.85. And my Alk and Calc have always been around 450 and 7-8dkh which I don't think is high enough to justify having low PH.

I've considered adding a PH Scrubber, but I think I'm leaning more towards buffering my top off water for now.

My questions are?

1) Is buffering my top off water a good idea?
2) If so, what buffers do you guys recommend, brand name or otherwise?
3) If not buffering my top off water, what else do you recommend?

One thing I have already tried is running the intake hose on the skimmer outside. It made absolutely no difference mostly because I think that my skimmer is too small and doesn't really push enough air to make a difference.

Another thing I thought of is to place one of the large Whisper Air Pumps outside and have that pump air into the aquarium, but the issue of microbubbles concerns me.

As always, thx for the help.

 

[DRThompson]

I was having similar problems, started a CO2 scrubber a couple months ago and now my system pH is ranges from about 8.1-8.25. My corals are growing faster.

Here's a link to my thread http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2309638

 

[Jgoal55]

Yeah. Saw your thread a while back when I posted about this issue. Cool stuff.

I was trying to avoid using a reactor because I really don't wanna have another media to change all the time.

How long has your media been lasting?

Also, as I mentioned, I don't think my mini-skimmer pushes enough air to really make a difference. I actually ran the skimmer intake outside and nothing happened to my ph at all. I'm wondering if I'll just have a similar result with a scrubber.

This is part of the reason I'm leaning towards buffering my top off. Would prefer not to use Kalk since that will affect my Calc and Alk levels which have been great.

 

[ska d]

I find kalk in the auto top off works great. Keeps all my parems in check. PH at lights out is always around 8.3. I like using the bright wells kalk +2 brand, so far it has kept my cal and mag perfect.

 

[Jgoal55]

Are you dosing Calc and Alk also though, or just Kalk?

 

[DRThompson]

I dose kalk in my ATO but only about 1gal/day in a 200 gal system. Don't think you could dose 2-3 gal/day of kalk in a 38 gal system

 

[Jgoal55]

Yeah. I agree. I think that would cause major issues.

As for the scrubber, your using a 1lb of media every ten days on a 200 gallon system, right?

Does media usage in a scrubber depend on tank volume? Because what I'm trying to avoid is having to buy a huge bucket of media and worse yet, changing it every week. I know myself and I won't do it.

At least with buffering my ATO it'll last me 3-4 weeks. That I can handle, if it works.

 

[DRThompson]

As for the scrubber, your using a 1lb of media every ten days on a 200 gallon system, right?

Does media usage in a scrubber depend on tank volume?

the depletion of CO2 media more dependent on volume of air being pulled thru it than anything else. IE: the more CFM you skimmer pulls the faster the media will get exhausted.

I Run a sedra 9000 on a ASM G4xx skimmer (rated to 500gal). I'm sure on a smaller system the media will last much longer.

 

[AquamanE]

Are you dosing Calc and Alk also though, or just Kalk?

Jorge I agree 2-3 gallons of kalk is a lot. And understand your concern with the 2 part dosing, but here are some thoughts.

_Kalk a perfectly balanced solution of alk and ca- this is a known fact.
_ph buffer,other than increasing ph of FW, what else will it affect? whats in it, some kind of carbonate if it increases ph?- Un known.
_Some people dose nothing but kalk to keep their parameters in check- also a known fact.

ide prefer to stick with a known other than a unknown

if it where mt tank- ide start with dosing kalk at a fraction of the recommended dose. keep it steady every time. monitor parameters daily at same time every day, dose kalk at same time every day, or better yet via ato, or dosing pump.

Just my $0.02

 

[Jgoal55]

That's good to know, but to that end, if running the skimmer intake line outside didn't help, do you think adding a scrubber to the same intake line will help?

Not sure my skimmer draws enough air.

What would the solution be if you didn't run a skimmer? An air pump?

 

[AquamanE]

oh and when doing above stop dosinf a and b. you might meet demmand with kalk only.

 

[Jgoal55]

oh and when doing above stop dosinf a and b. you might meet demmand with kalk only.

Kalk sounds like the easiest option for sure but, I don't have room for kalk reactor so ATO or dosing pump is the only way.

I've heard that Kalk can really mess up peristaltic pumps over time which is what I'm using to top off the tank now. Any truth to that?

I do have the doser set up so of course I could always dose the Kalk through the doser to better control the amount that goes in (so its not dependent on evaporation rates, etc.). Would this be better than ATO or would it ruin the doser?

Also, for you guys just dosing kalk, you don't run into the opposite effect where PH rises too high?

ph buffer,other than increasing ph of FW, what else will it affect? whats in it, some kind of carbonate if it increases ph?- Un known.

But if my top off comes in at PH 8.3 and after a WC my tank water is at 8.3, doesn't it stand to reason that adding 8.3 top-off to 8.3 tank water, will keep it at 8.3? (assuming Calc and Alk are steady of course).

 

[Biggar]

Hi Jgoal. I find it amazing that a 38 gallon tank evaporates 2-3 gallons a day.

I use a BRS dosing pump to bring in kalwasser and have had no problems yet with the pump. Im dosing 60mls of vinegar daily which brings ph down a bit and still keep ph between 7.8-8.2 due to the kalk.

You can dose what whatever strength you want if your ato reservoir is big enough.

 

[Jgoal55]

Lol. Yeah my ATO container is bigger than my tank. 55 gallons.

I put a lot of trust in my Tunze osmolator. Lol

I also use a BRS dosing pump for Top off.

As for the evaporation rate. It is nuts but several factors contribute to that:

1) I run fans for cooling
2) it's open top
3) lots of water movement on the surface.
4) ceiling fan that gets turned on almost every evening almost directly above tank

It's crazy because my 160 with a canopy evaporated at almost the same rate.

What happens when you put Kalk in an ATO and then you bag some corals or acclimate some fish? Wouldn't that cause a pretty large spike? Or if it's not enough to change salinity it won't affect other levels too much? I guess the solution is just to top off with SW

 

[Biggar]

Lol. Yeah my ATO container is bigger than my tank. 55 gallons.

I put a lot of trust in my Tunze osmolator. Lol

I also use a BRS dosing pump for Top off.

As for the evaporation rate. It is nuts but several factors contribute to that:

1) I run fans for cooling
2) it's open top
3) lots of water movement on the surface.
4) ceiling fan that gets turned on almost every evening almost directly above tank

It's crazy because my 160 with a canopy evaporated at almost the same rate.

What happens when you put Kalk in an ATO and then you bag some corals or acclimate some fish? Wouldn't that cause a pretty large spike? Or if it's not enough to change salinity it won't affect other levels too much? I guess the solution is just to top off with SW

My 265 with 75 gallon sump evaporates about 2 gallons a day with 2 fans running on it for 10 hours. ( ;

I mix kalk about 1/2 max strength once a week in a 20 gallon brute. So, the little bit of kalk doesn't really change any parameters, just keeps them stable. Even when my ato got stuck and dumped 15 gallons of kalk over a period of several hours, my parameter barely budged. No casualties.

 

[treetopflyn]

Hi Jgoal. I find it amazing that a 38 gallon tank evaporates 2-3 gallons a day.

No doubt. My 105 open top rimless only evaporates about 1.25 gallons a day and that is with a fan blowing across the sump, lots of surface movement and and A/C vent blowing on the surface all day.

 

[Hyperion1337]

Quick question, How does Kalk work? Im dealing with pmsing pH levels and was looking for a solution. Do you just mix kalk with RO/DI and its all good? Would it work with a tunze osmolator(this ATO is the best thing ever) and not like destroy it? Thanks.

 

[slapshot]

Be careful chasing low PH. More than likely it's a CO2 problem. Dosing kalk to raise PH can cause spike in your Alk. Contrary to popular thought there is no balance of calcium and alk. Depends on what corals you have and their growth rate. Fast growing corals will use more calcium leading to a spike in your alkalinity. Hence the reason most people dose the two parts separately. I personally believe your better off with a lower but steady PH as long as your not below 7.6. The best method is to introduce some outside air into the system.

 

[AquamanE]

Be careful chasing low PH. More than likely it's a CO2 problem. Dosing kalk to raise PH can cause spike in your Alk. Contrary to popular thought there is no balance of calcium and alk. Depends on what corals you have and their growth rate. Fast growing corals will use more calcium leading to a spike in your alkalinity. Hence the reason most people dose the two parts separately. I personally believe your better off with a lower but steady PH as long as your not below 7.6. The best method is to introduce some outside air into the system.

Slapshot- While I agree that chasing Ph is fruitless, the rest of your statement is flawed. Alk and Ca need to be dosed at same rates.

I recommend ALL OF YOU to read the articles in this link. I know there is a lot to read, but until you do, you wont understand the relationship between the Holy Trinity (alk, ca, mg). Dont get too hung up on the chemistry info, but on the real data and info. Their have been few in this industry that have been able to disifer this info like Randy Holmes Farley. PLEASE read these articles as they relate to your particular situation. Lots to be learned here!!!

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605

Jorge- you wwill find your solution here. I do however continue to question the 2-3 gallon evaporation on a 38G.

Many of you ask me questions related to this very often, if not daily. Biggar was one a few years ago, and im sure he will attest to my continued insistance that he follow the Holy Trinity Rules.. These articles will tell you where my info comes from.

 

[DRThompson]

+1
Most important part of a successful reef aquarium!!!

Slapshot- While I agree that chasing Ph is fruitless, the rest of your statement is flawed. Alk and Ca need to be dosed at same rates.

I recommend ALL OF YOU to read the articles in this link. I know there is a lot to read, but until you do, you wont understand the relationship between the Holy Trinity (alk, ca, mg). Dont get too hung up on the chemistry info, but on the real data and info. Their have been few in this industry that have been able to disifer this info like Randy Holmes Farley. PLEASE read these articles as they relate to your particular situation. Lots to be learned here!!!

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605

Jorge- you wwill find your solution here. I do however continue to question the 2-3 gallon evaporation on a 38G.

Many of you ask me questions related to this very often, if not daily. Biggar was one a few years ago, and im sure he will attest to my continued insistance that he follow the Holy Trinity Rules.. These articles will tell you where my info comes from.