Low alk causing some coral bleaching?

[NaH2Ofreak]

Been seeing lots of coral deaths recently due to the bad Salifert brand Alkalinity test kits. Sure wish Salifert would respond. Be sure and check your Alk. levels with a different brand test kit if you think you might be having alk issues. My Lamotte kits arrive today!!

Dennis

 

[Justin/TiV]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10101242#post10101242 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
Sorry to butt in, but, the calculator is extremely accurate. You should estimate your actual water volume and not use tank size.

You should always dissolve your baking soda in fresh ro/di and pour it in a high flow area. Never add it directly to the tank. Makes livestock real angry.

I think that may be my problem then...I don't know how much rock I have to consider displacement, how the heck do I figure that out....lol. SO yeah, it may be way off on tank volume. But I just add a little at a time and do tests no biggie. And I put the baking soda in the sump, and it never upset anything, but I'll start dissolving it from now on.

 

[nwrogers]

Check out what I just bought! The Multi-Reference Solution from Fauna Marin…

http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/mm5...=AO&Product_Code=FM-MR100&Category_Code=FM-SI

For those of you interested I will post the results from these tests on my local reef club forum. There is some interesting info there now so it may be worth a read…

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1137925

 

[ben&bobbi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10101242#post10101242 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
Sorry to butt in, but, the calculator is extremely accurate. You should estimate your actual water volume and not use tank size.

You should always dissolve your baking soda in fresh ro/di and pour it in a high flow area. Never add it directly to the tank. Makes livestock real angry.

chiming in, been through this on a couple myself. ended up fragging them and starting over.

i am not 100% sure of the calculator you are talking about, but the big one i used told me to raise my cal from 390-450 would take the equivalent ounces to 4 12pks!

which calc are you using?

 

[jay24k]

I use the one from jideck or whatever it is called. If you type in calcium alk calculator, I believe it is the first link which is off a comcast address. I just calculate about 10% less then what total is. For example, I have a 180 gallon tank plus a 40 sump. 220 total. I do it for 200 gallons. I then only dose about 80% of their recommendation and retest.

My alk is good so I will wait and see how everything goes. I was getting worried for a little there but I haven't added any corals in over a year except 3 pieces and that place actually dips every new addition in interceptor and TMPCC or whatever it is called.

But in this hobby you just never know.

 

[mmotown]

Guys I just got home and tested my water. I just bought a P04 kit to test for phosphates although I was already running a phosban reactor with ROWA phos in it. I tested P04 and it was 0 and I tested my Kh/ALk and it was 5.6 which according to the chart is 7.0/2.51 (Salifert). Is this why my corals are starting to receed from the bottom? It has to be because I don't have any red bugs etc. All other parameters are normal. Also looking back over my testing log my Kh/ALK has been 10.2/3.66 or in 9 range. So baking soda is how I remedy this?

 

[JER-Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10105715#post10105715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmotown
Guys I just got home and tested my water. I just bought a P04 kit to test for phosphates although I was already running a phosban reactor with ROWA phos in it. I tested P04 and it was 0

what kind of test kit? if it's salifert you wasted your money. your P04 is not zero.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10105715#post10105715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmotown

and I tested my Kh/ALk and it was 5.6 which according to the chart is 7.0/2.51 (Salifert). Is this why my corals are starting to receed from the bottom? It has to be because I don't have any red bugs etc. All other parameters are normal. Also looking back over my testing log my Kh/ALK has been 10.2/3.66 or in 9 range. So baking soda is how I remedy this?

7.04 dKh is not low enough to cause problems. However a sudden drop from your normal 10.2 to 7.0 is enough to cause problems. Alkalinity Swings are deadlier than a slow decrease/increase. If you decide to use baking soda, don't just throw enough in there to bring you up from 7 to 10 in one shot or you are liable to put the final nail in the coffin.

It's hard to tell where your problem lies...My guess is lack of stability.

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10102719#post10102719 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NaH2Ofreak
Been seeing lots of coral deaths recently due to the bad Salifert brand Alkalinity test kits. Sure wish Salifert would respond. Be sure and check your Alk. levels with a different brand test kit if you think you might be having alk issues. My Lamotte kits arrive today!!

Dennis

Is there a thread on RC regarding this issue?

 

[jay24k]

I haven't seen anything but that is all I use as well. My corals have bounced back but my green polyp mille is not faring well. I came back from vacation and it is halfway gone. All other corals are doing well.

 

[mmotown]

kits

kits

If Salifert test kits aren't that great for Calc and P04 then what brand do you guys recommend?

 

[jay24k]

I've always used Salifert with no issues. But I haven't really compared to others.

 

[slapshot]

Low Alk interferes with the corals ability to uptake calcium and will cause it to fade, RTN or loose the lower limbs.

 

[JER-Z]

i use salifert for everything except P04. I use a Hanna colorimeter for PO4.

When using Salifert Phosphate Test Kits readings were always zero, in reality, my PO4 was higher than it should have been. They just aren't acurate at the low range you need to measure.

I try to keep my PO4 under 0.05 and there was no way to know that using the salifert test kit.

 

[NaH2Ofreak]

Here is one of the larger threads. There are other threads but I dont have time to search for them right now.

Dennis

 

[Mikigo]

IME, Alk less than 8 polyp extension decrease. Alk less than 6.0 corals start to RTN. I like to keep the Alk above 9.0 just to be safe.

 

[Hurley12]

What does too high of alk cause?

 

[airinhere]

Hey guys, I usually play in the LPS section, but I think I might be of aid for you here.

I think I understand what is causing your SPS to RTN when your dKH gets low.

Its your ph.

When your alk gets low, it has a reduced effect at stabilizing your ph values.

Normally, the ph value in a reef tank changes from light to dark periods. During the light period the ph values slowly rise slightly. When the lights go out, your ph values slightly lower.

This can bewilder a reefer because you test your water and get a ph reading of 8.3. Perfect. But you tested at 6 or 7 pm and what you dont see is that the ph value at 6 or 7 am is very different.

Alkalinity reduces the amount of fluctuation in ph values from light to dark periods when kept in the range of 9-11 dKH.

Higher values tend to increase the ph of a tank, but otherwise dont pose any real threats to your corals unless brought to very high levels.

What kind of shift are we talking about? Try a half point or more of change in a 24 hour period.

If your dKH gets below 7, expect your ph to shift a minimum of a half point. If that shift could put you below 7.5 ph, your corals are likely to start having serious reactions.

This article might help.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php

 

[jjmcat]

Dont know if you all saw the mille thread but I had allmost zero PE.I checked my alk and it was 6.1.Im in the process of bringing it back up.Im curious if any of you use pickeling lime in your top off.

 

[Emster]

IMO sps are not very tolerant to alk swings up or down, they like stability, the only time I have seen stn from the bases in my tank I had a spike. Jer-z is right, your should slowly bring your alk up or down to adjust and try to keep it as stable as you can in the long haul. I believe stable alk is one of the most underestimated parameters in keeping sps's.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10464196#post10464196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
Hey guys, I usually play in the LPS section, but I think I might be of aid for you here.

I think I understand what is causing your SPS to RTN when your dKH gets low.

Its your ph.

When your alk gets low, it has a reduced effect at stabilizing your ph values.

Normally, the ph value in a reef tank changes from light to dark periods. During the light period the ph values slowly rise slightly. When the lights go out, your ph values slightly lower.

This can bewilder a reefer because you test your water and get a ph reading of 8.3. Perfect. But you tested at 6 or 7 pm and what you dont see is that the ph value at 6 or 7 am is very different.

Alkalinity reduces the amount of fluctuation in ph values from light to dark periods when kept in the range of 9-11 dKH.

Higher values tend to increase the ph of a tank, but otherwise dont pose any real threats to your corals unless brought to very high levels.

What kind of shift are we talking about? Try a half point or more of change in a 24 hour period.

If your dKH gets below 7, expect your ph to shift a minimum of a half point. If that shift could put you below 7.5 ph, your corals are likely to start having serious reactions.

This article might help.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php

PH on the open reef can swing a full point in a couple hours.


The issue isnt PH, its the Alk itself.


Corals/Saltwater invertebrates dont perform photosynthesis the same way freshwater stuff does. Freshwater organisms use dissolved CO2 for carbon, corals dont. They use the carbon from bicarbonate (alk!). So low Alk means they can't photosynthesize, and are starving.

This stability thing is such a crock. I can swing from 8-11 dkH twice a day and not lose anything. If I hit 6.5, or 13, I lose stuff. Thats not a stability issue, thats being outside acceptable parameters.