M80 ballast only fires bulbs made by Giesemann

[Tang Salad]

This ballast came with my G'mann 250W pendant. The MH ballast sits alone and looks like most other magnetic ballasts. Its only apparent difference is that it's very choosy about bulbs.

I used it the 1st year with the stock bulb (G'mann Marine) and then tried to replace it with a Phoenix, an Ushio and an "SPS". The ballast would not fire any of these. The fourth bulb I tried was another G'mann (Blue) and it fired immediately.

Now it's a year later, the problem is a year wiser. I've tried an Elos and another Ushio and neither would fire. Only the 2 G'mann bulbs I have fire.

When it fails to fire: I plug in the ballast and hear an immediate charging sound (a little buzz that crescendos) for maybe .5 seconds, then it's silent and nothing more comes from it no matter how long it's left plugged in, or into which outlet/apartment.

Any ideas how to troubleshoot this?

 

[uncleof6]

To make it easier (or harder) on me, single end or double end... working on it....

Jim

 

[Tang Salad]

It's a double end.

A theory I tested was that G'mann used some specially shaped contacts on the bulb or in the end clips, to force using their bulbs. This isn't the case.

 

[uncleof6]

The M80 ballast should fire these lamps:

Aquaconnect 14,000K
Aqualine Buschke 10,000K, 20,000K
BLV Nepturion 10,000K, 14,000K, 20,000K
CoralVue 10,000K, 14,000K, 20,000K
CoralVue ReefLux 10,000K, 12,000K
EVC 10,000K, 14,000K, 20,000K
Giesemann Megachrome Marine 12,500K
Giesemann Megachrome Coral 14,500K
Giesemann Megachrome Blue 22,000K
Hamilton 14,000K
Helios 12,500K, 20,000K
PFO Lighting Krystal Star
Phoenix Electric HexArc 14,000K
Ushio Aqualite 10,000K, 14,000K, 20,000K
XM 10,000K, 15,000K, 20,000K

And just about any other 250 watt double ended lamp. SE would have been easier: cause you have pulse start M80, and probe start M58 and you wound up with a probe start lamp, instead of a pulse start lamp. Double end lamps are all pulse start...... and the M80 should fire them, probably why you are questioning it.

Could be the ignitor going out, or bad capacitor. Depending on the maker of the ballast (it is not Giesemann-- they just assembled it) you can get replacement parts, and trouble shoot by replacement.

The only way to really trouble shoot it, is find another M80 ballasted fixture. Try the lamps (that won't fire in yours) and see if they fire. If they fire, replace the ballast kit.

The only specs I have, are for Advance ballasts, if it is not an advance ballast, they will not be of much use to you.

Jim

 

[HighlandReef]

Basically what unc said. I have m80s and have not had any issues firing de's

 

[Tang Salad]

Thanks for the help guys. I understand that it should fire any 250 DE bulb; the question I have is why it doesn't. It seems that the short answer is that it's broken. The lamps I tried were all brand new... so I have to assume they worked.

 

[Tang Salad]

Ok, so I opened her up last night and everything looked fine. The capacitor wasn't bulging or burned and all the wiring was snug.

The interesting discovery is that the ignitor states it should be mounted in the fixture itself, no further than 2 feet from the bulb. Here's a picture of the ignitor:

I'm thinking this may be the problem, because the ballast is connected to the fixture with a 12-15 foot cord; far more than the 2' the ignitor suggests. This seems like a simple design flaw, but I know there are several styles of magnetic ballast designs, maybe they don't all need to have the ignitor so close to the bulb?

As it stands now I see three options:

1. shorten the length of wire between ballast and fixture.
2. remount the ignitor to the inside of the fixture.
3. replace the ignitor.

Any suggestions?

 

[HighlandReef]

Try replacing the igniter. On my m80 ballasts bluewave and a Hamilton both are in the ballast box. You can get just the igniter from hamiltons web site. Just do a google search and you will see it. If you have a multimeter try taking some reading and see what they are

 

[uncleof6]

Ok, so I opened her up last night and everything looked fine. The capacitor wasn't bulging or burned and all the wiring was snug.

The interesting discovery is that the ignitor states it should be mounted in the fixture itself, no further than 2 feet from the bulb. Here's a picture of the ignitor:

I'm thinking this may be the problem, because the ballast is connected to the fixture with a 12-15 foot cord; far more than the 2' the ignitor suggests. This seems like a simple design flaw, but I know there are several styles of magnetic ballast designs, maybe they don't all need to have the ignitor so close to the bulb?

As it stands now I see three options:

1. shorten the length of wire between ballast and fixture.
2. remount the ignitor to the inside of the fixture.
3. replace the ignitor.

Any suggestions?

You can get the entire ballast kit, or single capacitors for the ballasts, through the hamilton website, but I do not think you can get the ignitors individually. (Just went through the site) Might if you call them. Best bet, if you want to try replacing the ignitor, is to walk into a contractor's elelctrical supply house, they should have them individually, plus the best advice for assembling the fixture.

The book says for the ignitor (LI522-H5 with the 71A5880 ballast series) the max distance to the lamp is 5'. For comparison, the LI522-H5 ignitor with a 71A52_0 (M85) ballast, the max distance is 30'; and with the 71A54_0, (M81) it is 20', so the label is a little misleading. So with the M80, the system cannot be "expected" to work properly with a 12' cord between the ignitor and lamp. Many MH ballasts, have long range (0 - 50') ignitors available, but not for the 71A5880 ballasts. So replacing the ignitor may or may not solve the issue.

Also, the universal ignitors available on the internet, will most likely NOT work, with 71A5880 ballasts (for advance, the universal equates to an LI533-H4 ignitor.)

Jim

 

[Tang Salad]

Thanks for the input guys.

I've been calling around locally and cannot find this particular ignitor. I also just got off the phone with Hamilton, and although they have ignitors for M80 ballasts, they do not have this particular ignitor. It's my understanding that it MUST be this EXACT ignitor to stand any chance of working.

So... right now, I'm thinking of going home and simply shortening the cord between the ballast and the fixture. It's 15-20 feet now and I could easily shorten it to 5-6 feet. The question I have, I guess, is if you think this stands any reasonable chance of fixing the problem. I'm working under the assumption that this current ignitor still works, as it CAN fire some bulbs, but that it's struggling with the extra long cord length.

 

[uncleof6]

It may fix the problem, assuming the ignitor is good. The other option you mentioned is moving the ignitor into the fixture itself. The only problem with that, is with the cord/connectors you have, you would lose the ground for the fixture: the wires would all have to be conductors.

Jim

 

[Tang Salad]

Thanks a lot Jim, you've been very helpful. I'm a little tentative to relocate the starter, as that would open up some wiring issues. I'll let you know if shortening the wire works.

Thanks again.

 

[Tang Salad]

Well the cord wasn't as long as I remembered. It was only about 14 feet, so I chopped it down to 7. It still won't fire any non-Geisemann bulbs.

I guess I need to look for a new starter.

 

[GOLFREEFER]

It is either the capacitor or igniter, Geismann bulbs prob don't need as much effort to start and that is the reason they will work.

Also, you really cant go by looks on ballast components to tell if there fried, they will look the same most of the time.

Check this site for cheap ballast components, it might be cheaper to replace the guts and just use the box.
www.1000bulbs.com/Metal-Halide-Ballasts/

 

[uncleof6]

1000bulbs.com, does not carry the capacitor (20µF required) nor the required LI522-H5-IC ignitor, for the advance 71A5880, (M80) ballast. Also be aware that 250 watt ballasts online, are most often M138 or M153, rather than M80, and although both are pulse start ballasts, they are not really interchangeable.

If you decide to replace the ignitor or the whole kit (the advance M80 is rather pricey), observe the max cord length between the ignitor and the lamp: on the advance it is 5 foot, not 7 foot, not 14 foot. Best is the ignitor at the fixture, not in the ballast box. For the cord, the best is a 14 gauge cord, (ballast to ignitor) to keep the voltage drop below 1%. There really is no love lost between me and aquarium lighting manufacturers. They do what is convenient, rather than what is correct. Sometimes it works.

Jim

 

[GOLFREEFER]

I am sorry, 1000 bulbs carries the M81, the 150w hqi and its the same brand as the PFO I have sitting here and they are very cheap to replace.

They do not have a M80 (250w HQI) ballast but do have M58.

I thought I saw M80 innards for cheap somewhere, but maybe not.

Edit- Wow, I always assumed the 250w HQI was easy and cheap to find as the 150, but I was very wrong.

 

[northernloon]

giesemann problems

giesemann problems

Just wondering if you ever resolved your problems?

 

[uncleof6]

Don't know if the problem was resolved, seldom get posts on that, just problem type posts. As an update, however, the Advance M80 has been discontinued. Osram/Sylvania is producing the only available M80 ballast, this is because they produce the only "HQI" lamps. Most after market "assemblers" had been using the Advance M80 ballasts, once they are gone, they are gone.

Jim

 

[Tang Salad]

No, I never solved the problem. I tried to find the ignitor first locally then online and had no luck. I was then distracted by non-tank related issues. Three months later and I'm still burning the same old bulb.

Now I'm debating getting another G'mann bulb to use with this ballast, or buying a new ballast and bulb.

Overall I'm very happy with this fixture, great light, great spread, well constructed. The ballast though, well, disappointed.

 

[totalpackage181]

ughhhh same issue with aqua medic

ughhhh same issue with aqua medic

...i have digital aquamedic pendant with metrolight ballasts, one would always overheat and shut off, so i moved them into the stand, mounted a fan and everything, ....mistakingly i broke a bulb ( phoenix 14k) both replacement bulbs that i got wont fire ( my original aquamedic 10k bulbs with along with the phoenix 14k that i bought about a month ago) two replacement bulbs, no luck. I had them test fire it at the store and no problem. The bulb will flash for literally a second and then go out ( only the new one of course) this is soooooo frustrating, after a complete rewire and everything. both ballasts seem to week to fire the new bulb(s).