uncleof6
Active member
I would say that overheating, the one ballast finished it off. However, sounds like the new lamps and ballasts are not properly matched up.
Jim
M80 ballast only fires bulbs made by Giesemann
- Thread starter Tang Salad
- Start date
I would say that overheating, the one ballast finished it off. However, sounds like the new lamps and ballasts are not properly matched up.
Jim
uncleof6
Active member
The LI522-H5 ignitor is standard equipment with the Advance M81 ballasts. Should be available from an electrical supply house (that caters to contractors type)
It could be the ignitor, but typically an ignitor has an expected life of around 800 hours or so, @ 90°C., and is only expended when the ignitor is actually pulsing. Since the ignitor usually only operates a few cycles a day, when the lamps are started, (and the ignitor is at ambient temperature-- not 90°C) the actual life expended is insignificant -- less than a second per day,) and would amount to about 5 hours of use per year. Less than insignificant. Do the math, the odds of an ignitor suddeny going out, are slim. However, an inoperable lamp will eat up an ignitor pretty quickly (continuous pulsing 24/7) but it would still last around a year...... A lamp that has not been replaced early (before it fails,) in the failure progression, will burn up the ballast, and this condition is more associated with buzzing, as the insulation of the coil wire has melted, and the windings are vibrating.
No other symptoms? Nada? You just woke up one morning and the lamp was not firing? I would say lamp failure, and if you have tried another known working lamp, and it behaved the same, I would say ballast failure, and either a capacitor failure, or lamp failure caused it. It could however, be as simple as a connection vibrated loose somewhere. Look at the arc tube in the lamp, if there is blackening at the ends of the arc tube, odds are the ballast is already gone. But without hands on the fixture, I am just guessing..........
Jim
It could be the ignitor, but typically an ignitor has an expected life of around 800 hours or so, @ 90°C., and is only expended when the ignitor is actually pulsing. Since the ignitor usually only operates a few cycles a day, when the lamps are started, (and the ignitor is at ambient temperature-- not 90°C) the actual life expended is insignificant -- less than a second per day,) and would amount to about 5 hours of use per year. Less than insignificant. Do the math, the odds of an ignitor suddeny going out, are slim. However, an inoperable lamp will eat up an ignitor pretty quickly (continuous pulsing 24/7) but it would still last around a year...... A lamp that has not been replaced early (before it fails,) in the failure progression, will burn up the ballast, and this condition is more associated with buzzing, as the insulation of the coil wire has melted, and the windings are vibrating.
No other symptoms? Nada? You just woke up one morning and the lamp was not firing? I would say lamp failure, and if you have tried another known working lamp, and it behaved the same, I would say ballast failure, and either a capacitor failure, or lamp failure caused it. It could however, be as simple as a connection vibrated loose somewhere. Look at the arc tube in the lamp, if there is blackening at the ends of the arc tube, odds are the ballast is already gone. But without hands on the fixture, I am just guessing..........
Jim
mixer911
New member
Thanks Jim,
It is actually making the buzzing noise at the lamp. Known good does the same. I can see it arc every once in a while in the lamp and it will fire eventually. It just started this about 3 days ago. Once fired it runs fine. Really weird. I took the case apart and checked all the wiring and everything is tight. Cap looks ok.
It is actually making the buzzing noise at the lamp. Known good does the same. I can see it arc every once in a while in the lamp and it will fire eventually. It just started this about 3 days ago. Once fired it runs fine. Really weird. I took the case apart and checked all the wiring and everything is tight. Cap looks ok.
uncleof6
Active member
Ignitor acid test: Remove the ignitor from the circuit, by disconnecting leads X1, X2, and X3, reconnect/leave connected all other leads. Install a 250watt mercury vapor or 250watt PROBE start lamp in the socket. Turn on power. If the lamp strikes immediatly , a bad ignitor, if it behaves the same (ie buzzes, or is a slow starter) bad ballast. Do not run the test lamp any longer than it takes to do the test. If the capacitor is going, the lamp will light, but will draw too much current, and be very brite, but the MH lamps would strike immediatly as well. (unless it is a restrike ie a hot restart) No offense, though there are electrical tests that can be done, the high voltage makes it too risky for an individual that does not know what they are doing. The test lamp is "safe."
Jim
Jim
mixer911
New member
Sounds easy enough. I just have to find a probe start bulb to test it with. Might be able to find a mercury vapor one around. I only have Radiums. No offense taken as I know the voltages can be dangerous in these ballasts. My brother has an electrical business, so I will see if he can find that ignitor if it is the issue. I am gonna purchase a new ballast this evening, so this will be a project ballast I can use as backup from now on, or I might use it for a second light on a frag tank.
uncleof6
Active member
If any are still looking for direct replacement for the Advance M80 ballast, Osram Sylvania, is the only one available at this time. They have no plans to end of life it. The M80 is the child of Osram Sylvania, designed to operate their HQI "branded" 250w Metal Halide lamps. The M80's use with european spec lamps, is incidental. The part number is:
47273 and the description is: M250/120/277-KIT
I would not however, interchange parts between the two "kits".
Jim
47273 and the description is: M250/120/277-KIT
I would not however, interchange parts between the two "kits".
Jim
serval
New member
I have a Giesemann Infiniti, one year old, using an electronic ballast and 250 MH's; I cannot tell if it is the M80 type you are discussing here. It had been firing a Giesemann Megachrome bulb for 6 mo's and then I switched to an Elos Abyss 250 for 6 mo's which it also fired just fine. Then it mysteriously stopped firing a couple of days ago.
I thought the bulb was bad and tried replacing it with a Phoenix 14,000K 250, but that will not light either. I am assuming the ballast is no good (it no longer gets warm)? Can you tell me if I can replace it with an Icecap 250 ballast like this one or not: http://www.marinedepot.com/IceCap_E...Ballasts-IceCap-IC3111-FILTACBAMHSWEB-vi.html ?
I don't have the electronic skills to replace individual parts as outlined above. I appreciate the help.
I thought the bulb was bad and tried replacing it with a Phoenix 14,000K 250, but that will not light either. I am assuming the ballast is no good (it no longer gets warm)? Can you tell me if I can replace it with an Icecap 250 ballast like this one or not: http://www.marinedepot.com/IceCap_E...Ballasts-IceCap-IC3111-FILTACBAMHSWEB-vi.html ?
I don't have the electronic skills to replace individual parts as outlined above. I appreciate the help.
Tang Salad
Algae skeptic
If you still have the old Giesemann Megachrome try it and see if it lights.
What are the approx. dimensions of the ballast? That can help determine if it's magnetic or electronic, as G'mann did/does use both.
Wiring another company's ballast to the fixture will probably require splicing on one more of the connections. I don't know of any other companies that use that white plug that G'mann uses.
What are the approx. dimensions of the ballast? That can help determine if it's magnetic or electronic, as G'mann did/does use both.
Wiring another company's ballast to the fixture will probably require splicing on one more of the connections. I don't know of any other companies that use that white plug that G'mann uses.
uncleof6
Active member
The 250w Phoenix lamps, operate best on the ANSI M80 ballast. (Magnetic ballast)
Despite the add hype, the electronic ballast, will not drive the lamp to M80 specs, it tries, but ends up under driving the lamp, resulting in less par, and a color shift to the blue side.
For a replacement ballast, contact either Giesemann for a replacement ballast for the fixture, for the Giesemann lamps, or grab a blue wave for the Phoenix, if they are still available. M80 ballasts are going to dry up, at some point-- as noted earlier in this thread.
Jim
Despite the add hype, the electronic ballast, will not drive the lamp to M80 specs, it tries, but ends up under driving the lamp, resulting in less par, and a color shift to the blue side.
For a replacement ballast, contact either Giesemann for a replacement ballast for the fixture, for the Giesemann lamps, or grab a blue wave for the Phoenix, if they are still available. M80 ballasts are going to dry up, at some point-- as noted earlier in this thread.
Jim
serval
New member
Thank you Uncle and tang. Uncleof6, when you say, grab a blue wave for the Phoenix, I know that is what I'd like to do, based on this thread, but I have questions about compatibility. I see Blue Wave ballasts for sale on the internet, but there are at least 3 types and none of the online photos show the same wire configuration that I see on the original Giesemann ballast. I want to be sure to get the right ballast. Do you know which, if any, of the Blue Waves would work with the Giesemann Infiniti fixture (and that odd plug arrangement it has)?
uncleof6
Active member
This is DIY, so if you wish to switch lamps, and use the parts of the infinity fixture, you will have to adapt the connector to the new ballast. If this is not the way you wish to go, then you will need to purchase a Giesemann ballast for the fixture, and use the Giesemann lamps. This is the reason, fixtures use odd connectors and such-- to limit compatibility, while at the same time incorparate some ease of use, so you don't feel quite so limited.
It is not that complicated to do, but not so easily explained. For a single MH lamp, there are only two wires (depending on where the ignitor is for a magnetic ballast) from the ballast to the fixture. If the fixture is grounded, (as they absolutely should be, but may not be) there would be three wires. For dual MH, I assume this is what you have, there would be four or five or 6 (one or two would be ground) The one you want for dual Phoenix lamps would be the blue wave 7 dual ballast. IIRC it uses dual Advance M80 ballasts..... the one that is out of production....
Jim
It is not that complicated to do, but not so easily explained. For a single MH lamp, there are only two wires (depending on where the ignitor is for a magnetic ballast) from the ballast to the fixture. If the fixture is grounded, (as they absolutely should be, but may not be) there would be three wires. For dual MH, I assume this is what you have, there would be four or five or 6 (one or two would be ground) The one you want for dual Phoenix lamps would be the blue wave 7 dual ballast. IIRC it uses dual Advance M80 ballasts..... the one that is out of production....
Jim
Tang Salad
Algae skeptic
Hey Serval, don't feel so bad, the Megachromes are actually very good bulbs. You pay a premium for the quality, but they're top-notch with regards to color, longevity and PAR.
moondoggy4
Team RC
I am bumping this up, thanks for all the info.
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