macro help!

[juststartingout]

Awhile ago I had placed some grape calerpa in my refugium, it looked like it "died" after awhile, and after reading about it going sexual, I decided to remove it. I have since placed about 1/2 lb of cheatomorpha in my fuge about 6 weeks ago. It also looks to be dying. What apperarance does it have when it's thriving? I will try and post a picture later. How do you care for cheato? I had just let it float, I have a small amont of water flow through my refugium. What am I doing wrong? I have a hair algea dillema at the moment in my main tank, when I test for nitrates/phosphates, it shows 0. Am I starving out my macro, there seems to be enough nutrients for my hair algea. Thanks for your time! I should note that I have a LOA 65wt ( says power of 500 wts) pc fixture over the refgium on a reverse schedule.

 

[kmk2307]

juststartingout,

I'm guessing that the algae growing in your main tank is consuming nutrients as they become available and your chaeto is nutrient (probably mostly nitrogen) starved. Could you get a herbivore like a small Diadema urchin to eat your hair algae? Increasing your refugium lighting to 24/7 could help.

Good luck and HTH,
Kevin

 

[juststartingout]

Thanks Kevin. I had my refugium lite on 24/7, but I cut it back on the account of a recemendation to try and rid some cyano in the return area of my sump. Is all of this "uglyness" just part of reefing? Is it just phases a starting tank goes through?:mad2:

 

[beaslbob]

In my experience grape requires much higher lighting than caulpera profilera or even chaeto.

The ugliness does not have to be part of starting a reef or any aquarium. But some setbacks are normal.

the chaeto should be a deep green. The only thing that could be preventing if from spreading is lack of light or nutrients. When it gets those it should double every week or two.

You could try putting a handful in the display to see if it survives. If it does then try to duplicate the display nutrients and lighting in the refug.

If you do not have corals in the display you could try light out in the display for a few days to kill off the display algaes. and cleaner crews to eat the display uglies will help also.

 

[juststartingout]

The cheato is still a deep green, but has not grown at all, and I have had it for about 6 weeks. I have a few corals in the display, so tuning the lights out might not be good for me. I don't get it though, I have monitored my parameters at least once a week, and never seen nitrates/phosphates, I have even tried to switch testing kits. Thanks for the reply's... I wish my cheato was growing as well as my hair algea

 

[juststartingout]

OK, my cheato is green, but seams to be brittle and falling apart. Alot of is is laying on the sand in my fuge. Is it dead, and I need to pitch it?

 

[beaslbob]

that does not look like my chaeto. almost like a hair or even slime type algae. Sure seems like you have good lighting there. At least from the picture.

I suspect you do not have enough nutrients to sustain the chaeto. If you are cycling and have used ro/di then that could be the case. You could try removing as much hair as you can and reducing the chaeto. eventually the chaeto will be consuming the nutrients not the hair.

 

[juststartingout]

Bob, the picture that I posted is my current hair algea in my display tank. My cheato is in my refugium in the basement. I quess thats why I am confused... My macro seems to be dying because I have no measurable nitrates or phosphates, while my hair algea appears to be thriving. I thought my macro would win the war of nutrient consumption and starve out the hair algea, but the opposite seems to be happening. I had the cheato before the hair algea started, so who knows.... ? Which raises the question, when do I add the macro to my refugium, when I start detecting nitrates/phosphates, or before I detect them?

 

[beaslbob]

Bob, the picture that I posted is my current hair algea in my display tank. My cheato is in my refugium in the basement. I quess thats why I am confused... My macro seems to be dying because I have no measurable nitrates or phosphates, while my hair algea appears to be thriving. I thought my macro would win the war of nutrient consumption and starve out the hair algea, but the opposite seems to be happening. I had the cheato before the hair algea started, so who knows.... ? Which raises the question, when do I add the macro to my refugium, when I start detecting nitrates/phosphates, or before I detect them?

Sorry I mis understood.

To me you add desirable plant life like chaeto as the very first thing and then do the rest. I also use tap which provides nutrients to the desirable plant life. And also filters the water conditioning it for the future bioload.

hair and uglies do grow faster and can bloom if the desirables are not in control. So what i think is happening is you increased the bioload (by adding livestock) and the faster growing hair responded first.

But you state that the chaeto is still green and that is a good sign. My chaeto did not seem to "take off" until nitrates were lowered. But it did stay solid dark green. Now it seems to double about every week or two.

Also I have a 55g to which I added two pounds of caulpera profilera. I have removed 8 softball sized batches of chaeto in the last three weeks. If you have a half pound of chaeto for a 170g maybe you don't have enough (yet).

You might try putting a handful of chaeto in the display. It might "shade" the hair so that the hair right below the chaeto will die off. And as the chaeto expands place it back in the refug.

I think the main thing is to not get discouraged. It does take time for things to stabilize. the chaeto should eventually outlast the hair. In the meantime keep removeing the hair from the display, or use cleaner crews until the hair does not come back.

 

[kmk2307]

juststartingout,

Have you thought about adding a critter like an urchin to your tank that will feed on the hair algae? Hopefully killing off the HA will allow your chaetomorhpa more nutrients. If all your chaeto dies off and then you get rid of the HA you might want to add more chaeto while the nutrients are still low / undetectable but there is no HA to compete with the chaeto. If you get to the point where you have no undesireable algae and low nutrients you can always add nutrients through food, etc.

Good luck,
Kevin

Kevin

 

[mellen]

juststartingout -

juststartingout -

Hi, again!

Thanks to your excellent photo, I think I may have another good idea to consider. I reviewed a past RK Magazine article last night, "Food of Reefs, part 6", TBOMR...

Your sand bed and out-gassing hair algae (pure oxygen & nitrogen bubbles - very healthy!!), show a vigorous completion of the denitrification process, and by the colors of the DSB strata, I'm guessing a high load system has been established (ref. article charts). Off the cuff, I'd say the hair algae is in the perfect location to hog most nutrients within the sandbed system (is it all over LR, too?), thus out competing macros.

Most definitely herbivores for ongoing control. Some urchin spp and lawnmower blennies are voracious as goats! Meanwhile, complete removal of visible hair & slime from the tank by using a syphon with a new brush strapped on it to scrub & pull it loose when doing water changes. I made a syphon scrubber that looks a lot like a standard vacuum cleaner dust brush attachment. I used very thin plastic zip straps to attach a curved section of stiff, short- bristled, 1/2 inch plastic coated filter tube cleanerwire all around the very edge of a rigid syphon tube section. A series of small holes were heat-melted through the tube with a hot finish nail, about 1/4 inch in from the plastic's edge. Then you just "stitch" on the brushwire all around the edge with the straps. I've seen a tiny version for nano tanks; a large, plastic toothbrush with a hole dremeldrilled into center of bristlehead, then an airline syphon tube is pushed through from the back to within 1/4" of the bristle tips and superglued/siliconed into place. That would make a great rock detailer for cleaning around/near corals, in crevices, etc.

 

[mellen]

Wait a minute! I just reviewed your photo...Are those a bunch of large-ish bubbles trapped under the sand, seen through tank glass? If so - please carefully extract a sample of the sandbed with a turkey baster; DON'T stir anything up! Smell the sample over your kitchen sink, or if it totally reeks when you remove it from tank, you'll know...If there is a strong sulfurous oder, please don't do anything until you contact Dr. Ron Shimek or Eric Borneman or Randy Holmes-Farley. This looks like a possible nitrogen sulphide build up, and can shock or kill everything in the tank if it is disturbed. I know i'm being paranoid and I'm sorry if I'm alarming you; didn't want to take any chances. And, yes, if this is the case, the problem is solvable, but should be handled with the advice of RC's resident scientists! Please visit Author Forum from RK Mag or go to Ask Dr. Ron immediately!

 

[juststartingout]

M'Ellen, thank you very much for your time! That makes sense to me (nitrification process). If it was not a hassle, could you post a link to the article, otherwise I can try to look it up, was it a recent article? Yes the hair algea is startng to creep onto my LR ( it was starting to look great) This weekend I am going to "clean house".:uzi:

 

[mellen]

juststartingout

juststartingout

Just returned from work - took the night off; it was slow.

Pretty please, DO NOT clean your sandbed hair algae if a sample of the sandbed itself has any kind of "rotten egg"-like odor! I realized earlier that I was too hasty in giving advice; I did not verify how long your tank has been set up - I did not ask what (if any) livestock you have in there - and most of all, I did not study your photo well enough!

The reason i am now so concerned is that I believe your sandbed is not yet stabilized, after all. In the photo, which is an extreme close up, but a little out of focus, there is not a nice, clear layering or "stripes" of contrasting colored strata. Instead I see what appear to be fairly large gas bubbles trapped in the sand at random. These bubbles could well be a sulphur gas compound - which means your sandbed is not done "cycling", and the SAND SHOULD NOT BE DISTURBED. If the sand is stirred up at this point, like with that nifty syphon I wrote you about (!), a potentially lethal cloud of sulphur type gas will be released suddenly into the tank water. This gas cloud will shock or kill any animals in the tank! Other than not messing with the sand, you need only remove any livestock in there to keep in a quarantine tank or in a friend's established tank until your sandbed bacteria have had the time to reach equalibrium.

Please, so I don't feel like a total nincompoop anymore, take a small sample of your sandbed out carefully with a turkey baster and check it for "rotten egg" odor. Shout back with results.http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/eb/index.htm

 

[mellen]

juststartingout

juststartingout

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.htm
That's a good one. Read number 15. The other link, you need to scroll down to sandbed pics and read that section around pics.

By the way, dude, your equipment list is shhhWEET!!!

 

[billsreef]

The bubbles are more likely to be O2 from algal activity. Suprisinly enough light can penetrate the first 1/2" or so of sand bad to grow microalgae's, especially along the glass edges that will allow light even futher down IME hydrogen sulfide buildup to dangerous levels is a rather rare event. If hydrogen sulfide was to build up to dangerous levels, the sand in the areas of build up would turn very black. Since your sand still looks nice and white, I don't think you need to worry about sulfide.

For the algae situation, all the advice on adding herbivores is good. A nice collection of snails, lawnmower blennies, select urchins (some will eat much more than algae) and some kinds of hermits are very efficient at eating all that nasty hair algae BTW add your herbivores slowly, you don't want to add too many and starve them to death. If your not adding an iron supplement, I find that often helps promote growth of macro algaes such as chaetomorpha. I've also noticed with chaet, that it seems to a have a critical mass for rapid growth. In my growout tanks, if I overharvest to the point where I only have 1 or 2 good portions left, it takes several weeks before growing back in any real quanity. When it fills about half the tank it starts growing exponentially and almost can't be harvested fast enough So be patient, in time and with the advice in this thread you will harvesting pleny of chaet

 

[beaslbob]

I agree anf think the bubles are oxygen.

Again in the theme of keeping it simple, try putting some of the chaeto where this algae is growing.

 

[mellen]

I hope I was correct in my first post. Searched his other posts - tank is only 4 months from set up and stocked with some fairly large animals already, hence my concern. Just can't tell from the close-up, 'cause it does'nt show more than very top 1/2 inch or so of sand. Had this nightmarish vision of him crashing his stock with that syphon tube! So, I erred on the side of extreme/paranoid caution...:eek1: :rolleye1:

 

[beaslbob]

mellen

we all err on the side of extreme caution.

juststartingout: my concern is that if you don't have plant life thriving (even the uglies) there will be a slow build up of carbon dioxide and toxins. Not a good situation. Hence my erring on the side of caution is to get desirable plant life thriving.

 

[billsreef]

tis better to err on the side of caution, mellen

Bob, so long as a tank has strong circulation and surface agitation there are no worries of CO2 build up. Also good skimming and carbon use will help with any toxins other the ammonia