Made a terrible mistake

[Jarred1]

Hello,

I made the mistake of adding fish to a tank before quarantining the fish. There is a small yellow tang, a flame angel, and an anthias.

I believe the yellow tang has black ich and marine ich. I'm guessing the other two fish have marine ich.

I have tried to find info on treating the black ich and only came up with:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996184
That thread doesn't say if the treatment worked though. I am going to catch the fish after I take my finals and put them into a quarantine tank, what should I dose in the tank to treat my fish?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Jarred

 

[Sk8r]

Black ich is actually a worm infestation; marine ich is another parasite. And they're not treated by the same thing. Prazipro can get the 'black ich'. Copper could get the marine ich; but it affects the effectiveness of the Prazipro, and makes judging the dosage tricky. Catch-22. I did find that Prazipro advertises that it works well with Ich-X, an ich treatment that is formaldehyde and malachite green (will permanently stain acrylic tanks)---If you can find them and get them shipped fast, you might be in time. The other possibility is to establish TWO qts and treat them separately, each with what they need.

 

[Jarred1]

Black ich is actually a worm infestation; marine ich is another parasite. And they're not treated by the same thing. Prazipro can get the 'black ich'. Copper could get the marine ich; but it affects the effectiveness of the Prazipro, and makes judging the dosage tricky. Catch-22. I did find that Prazipro advertises that it works well with Ich-X, an ich treatment that is formaldehyde and malachite green (will permanently stain acrylic tanks)---If you can find them and get them shipped fast, you might be in time. The other possibility is to establish TWO qts and treat them separately, each with what they need.

Thank you for your prompt reply. Do you know if the dose is changes because I will be using both products? Also how long should I keep these fish out of my display for?

 

[Jarred1]

I am in luck, my LFS carries both of those products.

 

[Breadman03]

What about using Prazipro for the black Ich and tank transfer for the marine Ich?
(newb disclaimer)

 

[Jarred1]

I don't have room to do the transfer stuff for the ich.

 

[gweston]

Sk8r really knows his stuff, so take his comments over mine

I'd think Ich treatment should take precedence especially if it is established and causing problems. My preferred Ich med is Cupramine (also get a Seachem copper test kit, important!). That should treat for both ich/parasites. Some say 8-10 weeks of treatment is a must for Ich, including the display going fishless for that time period. I'd stand by that. If cut short, an reinfestation is possible. Then another 8-10 weeks of treatment. Its a nasty bug!

My normal QT routine for new livestock usually involves a week of prazipro while they settle and get accustomed to their new environment. They eat well and gain strength. I then make a judgement call. I can QT with just prazipro for about 4 weeks and observe. Alternately I do a cupramine run (check that the species can handle copper meds!), and QT for a total of 3 weeks. One week prazi. Two weeks cupramine. That is a generalization. Something seems to always come up with fish I put into QT, at least as of late. There is always risk for secondary infections to appear with a sick fish. Which complicates things. Then you need to also add an antibiotic (I prefer gram negative antibiotics). Mixing meds can get tricky, but most manufacturers have a phone # and can give advice about interactions.

I try to avoid formalin based meds, if possible, as they can be harsh. Though I do keep it on hand for dips. It is one of the few meds that can treat Brooklynella if you ever come across it. I had a clown a few months back with brook (came sick from the LFS), and even formalin didn't help it was so bad.

Oh, and keep some carbon on hand to run between meds that can potentially interact in a bad way. A ~25% water change plus 24 hours of carbon can suck out a lot of stuff before removing carbon and switching meds.

 

[f3honda4me]

I think sk8r is a "her".

 

[Jarred1]

I know marine ich you should let the tank be fishless for 6-8 weeks. Is that the same for the black ich?

 

[Sk8r]

I'm not sure on the turbellarian flatworms (black ich). Prazipro can get them. BUT if used in a tank it may kill off worms, including valuable species. Does anyone know if Flatworm Exit can be used against turbellarians?

And, OP? Can you give us details about your tank? FIsh-only? Reef? Age? All these things matter in devising a treatment?

 

[Jarred1]

Tank is a 40 gallon breeder, it's almost three years old. It is a reef tank with lots of SPS. I will be taking the fish out of the tank and putting them in a qt tank. I plan on doing the hypo salinity treatment for the marine ich. I plan on doing that for 4 weeks, and then switching over to parazipro for the turbellarian flatworms. I was given Dr.G's De-Wormer frozen fish food and told to feed the fish that. I also have a yasha goby, can gobies get either of these nasty bugs?

 

[Jarred1]

Okay, I got most of the items I will need for my QT tank.

Specs:
20g tall tank
Whisper 10 power filter
Sponge Filter (rated for 80g)
100w heater

I got the sponge filter from a local reefer last night and put the sponge into my 3 year old tank. I am going to leave it in there for another day, I know it should be in there longer but that's the best I can do given the amount of time I have had to set this tank up. I plan to take care of the Cryptocaryon irritans first with cupramine by SeaChem because they are the most life threatening from what I have read. After I see no more signs of Cryptocaryon irritans I will move my focus over to the Turbellarian flat worms. I have two ways I will be treating this the first will be to dose Parazipro and feed the fish Dr.G's De-Worming fish food. I will feed the fish daily with Cyclopeeze and green nori all soaked in garlic. Over the course of the 8 weeks they will be QTed I will update this thread with my results.

If there is anything else I should do please let me know.

Thanks again for all the help
Jarred

 

[Jarred1]

Anyone else have any suggestions?

 

[Jarred1]

Well, the Flame Angel died last night in the qt tank, it's my fault because I couldn't keep up with the water changes for the ammonia even though I did two 10g changes. The Yellow tang and the other Anthias died in the dt the night before. I think I just waited to long to get these animals treated. I feel really bad right now as I am only left with the Yasha goby. I am looking into letting this qt sit for a few weeks for it to cycle better and then I will be getting new fish to qt. So far I am looking to get Centropyge eibli, some type of anthias, its between the tiger anthias and the dispar anthias, and the goby and starry blennie. I would like to have a midas blennie but, I'm not sure how the starry blennie and the midas blennie will behave together. All the new fish will be visiting the qt tank but how long should I keep them in there? I know the DT has to stay empty for 8 weeks or so.

 

[f3honda4me]

4 weeks minimum for QT.

Also so long as you aren't using copper, you can use amquel or prime to help with ammonia in a pinch.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Well, the Flame Angel died last night in the qt tank, it's my fault because I couldn't keep up with the water changes for the ammonia even though I did two 10g changes. The Yellow tang and the other Anthias died in the dt the night before. I think I just waited to long to get these animals treated. I feel really bad right now as I am only left with the Yasha goby. I am looking into letting this qt sit for a few weeks for it to cycle better and then I will be getting new fish to qt. So far I am looking to get Centropyge eibli, some type of anthias, its between the tiger anthias and the dispar anthias, and the goby and starry blennie. I would like to have a midas blennie but, I'm not sure how the starry blennie and the midas blennie will behave together. All the new fish will be visiting the qt tank but how long should I keep them in there? I know the DT has to stay empty for 8 weeks or so.

Just an opinion; anthias are not easy fish and do best in well established tanks. I'd introduce a couple easier fish first, and when they are doing well, then try the anthias. We know about ich (and other obvious parasites), ammonia, etc. But, I just think there are some ''unknowns'' about well established tanks that help tougher species do well. I've followed this advice for 30+ years and am totally convinced there's something to it.

 

[Jarred1]

I have been doing a lot of research on the Turbellarian flatworms and found that they eat detritus so it is hard to get rid of them. I decided to research if Parazipro is reef safe and everything I have read so far says yes. Will the Parazipro kill the Turbellarian flatworms if they aren't attached to a fish?

 

[Jarred1]

Just an opinion; anthias are not easy fish and do best in well established tanks. I'd introduce a couple easier fish first, and when they are doing well, then try the anthias. We know about ich (and other obvious parasites), ammonia, etc. But, I just think there are some ''unknowns'' about well established tanks that help tougher species do well. I've followed this advice for 30+ years and am totally convinced there's something to it.

Can you give me some advice as to whats fish will do well in a 40 breeder that is three months old now and by the time I add new fish the tank will be 5-6 months old? I am over the regular clown fish and want nice fish.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I think PP may kill flatworms; I'd call the Mfg's tech support (Hikari), they are very helpful.
I really can't help with fish selection, that's like picking clothes. IMO, a 40 is quite small for any anthias, however. Why not check some of the online dealers (liveaquaria.com, etc) and look at fish that are appropriate for your tank? You have a small tank and should stick to smaller fish.