Making Clowns Host With Anemone?

[champion6sigma]

Actually no clown hosts.

If you spend some time in the nem forum you would see countless situations where a clown would not accept a non natural host, and then on intro of a natural host they will dive right in almost immediately.
The instinct is still very much there

I'm not arguing over what anyone should try to pair . . . I have no knowledge to make a recommendation.... Im only arguing that I agree with the clear tube or pvc method to help out a clown that is unwilling to try out an anemone ....whatever one the poster had or doesn't have ...

I'm pro intervention

I've personally seen clowns never go to an anemone.

That's all I was trying to say.

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[davocean]

I'm sure zoo owners do their very best to provide what would be more natural to each animal, so that is what I am suggesting here, for best possible results try to provide what would be natural for the animals you keep.

 

[champion6sigma]

Just replace my use of host with bond . . . if me saying clown hosting is taboo

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[davocean]

I'm pro intervention

I've personally seen clowns never go to an anemone.

And all I'm trying to do is explain to you why that is.

 

[CStrickland]

I'm making the point on forcing any clown into any nonnatural match nem which some of those video's are showing.
Some of those people doing those youtube vids are claiming you need to do this for tank bred clowns claiming they don't have the host accepting instinct, which I think is ridiculous, it would take many generations of breeding to remove animals basic instincts.

Most of the people here that focus on nems and clowns especially on that forum believe that BTA's are not natural for occs or percs and that part of the list may need a correction or update

My mentioning of the hadonni was an example at how different each nem is from one another, and it has a stronger sting and stickier tentacles than other host nems, and being the most likely situation of seeing negative results in forcing together.

yeah, I don't really disagree. I think we are on diff pages in the sense that I'm talking about *that vid* and you're speaking more generally. I wouldn't be surprised if there are vids that do stuff I would disagree strongly with, (especially the idea of an acclimation box where the clown can't really get very far from the nem) but the linked one isn't that. Same with the nem/clown, I'm talking about *this nem* and you're talking about other ones.

The reasons that you use for not forcing at all are the same ones that I would use for not expecting the same success in this vid to all nems and all clowns everywhere. But those clowns looked a lot happier once they got a little nudge into that nem, and they didn't look very stressed by the nudge.

 

[CStrickland]

Just replace my use of host with bond . . . if me saying clown hosting is taboo

That's just a thing people do, I don't know why. It reminds me of someone correcting a poster's grammar rather than focus on the points they are trying to make. I don't know very much about nems and clowns at all, but I fail to see what earthly difference it makes who does the "hosting." Don't let it get under your skin.

 

[rblackdvm]

I have two ocellaris clowns in a BTA. The older clown, I had for 8 months and never touched the BTA. I introduced a small snowflake clown that immediately dove into the BTA and the older clownfish followed shortly after they've been bonded ever since and no harm was done to the fish or nem with the immediate introduction.

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[Fache]

Does anyone think it would be easier to get them to bond if you are starting a new build and there is nothing else in the tank except some small peices of rock and sand?


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[davocean]

This is probably a topic better suited in the nem forum than new to hobby, but like many others when new to the hobby it was the symbiotic relationship between clowns and anemone's that drew me in, and since has been my main focus.
I'm just advocating understanding what helps achieve success in doing so.

It's like getting a bulldog and wondering why it does not fetch like a labrador, just different animals w/ different instincts.
And now I'm sure I'll hear someone w/ the best fetching bulldog ever!
And like that there will be exceptions to the rules here and there, but generally speaking it is not the clowns lack of instinct or "being dumb" as I see so many put it, it's really our own ignorance to their natural instincts and needs.

 

[ca1ore]

I think the best way to get a pair of clowns to accept a BTA is to plop a lion fish (quarantined, of course) into the tank. Eeeeeks .....

 

[BigEZ77]

What cracks me up is this...Isn't this whole hobby kind of unnatural? There is a lot of captive bred and man made stuff, but there's still a ton of stuff being harvested from the ocean and placed in less than natural environments. We take fish that have the option of wide open water and confine them to tanks and someone somewhere says this is the right tank size for that fish. We use this device, that chemical, etc. Its all unnatural folks. So if someone can find away to entice them to host without causing harm to either, I'm all for it. Isn't that what we do in this hobby?...Find ways to make it work without too much damage to our "pets". After reading all these responses (and with a lot more experience), I would lean towards doing it but I'm too afraid to take the anemone off the rock.

 

[davocean]

Well yeah, we are taking an animal out of their natural environment, doesn't mean we don't put them in water or at least TRY to suit their needs, and doing this in a way that is less harmful is exactly my point.
Forcing them can cause harm.

 

[jstack]

What cracks me up is this...Isn't this whole hobby kind of unnatural? There is a lot of captive bred and man made stuff, but there's still a ton of stuff being harvested from the ocean and placed in less than natural environments. We take fish that have the option of wide open water and confine them to tanks and someone somewhere says this is the right tank size for that fish. We use this device, that chemical, etc. Its all unnatural folks. So if someone can find away to entice them to host without causing harm to either, I'm all for it. Isn't that what we do in this hobby?...Find ways to make it work without too much damage to our "pets". After reading all these responses (and with a lot more experience), I would lean towards doing it but I'm too afraid to take the anemone off the rock.

not really worth the risk if you have to pull the nem off a rock it's comfy on you may just kill it. IF you see it on the move put it in a colander and float it let the clowns get in but make sure they have enough room to be safe for the night feed them while they are together. if it happens it happens
IMPORTANT the first night the clowns may sleep in the nem but do not be fooled hold them in for 3 days or so make the bond strong
this hobby has a lot if diversity

 

[champion6sigma]

Dumping them on an anemone is no different than Dumping them in water ....both are their natural environment

But I understand those inclined to err on side of caution .....by not sliding a clown down to the nem.

Ive never moved an anemone ...I've moved a rock. I like idea of flipping a rock if it goes to bottom. But that's maybe my inexperience. I've never manhandled coral or done fragging or even glued stuff to rocks. Still a beginner .





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[davocean]

Yeah I get it, new people to the hobby and been there myself.
If you stick to the hobby there will come a day when you realize you see the same questions and posts over and over, and people's quicky solutions, and you may also try to point out the fastest or easiest resolve is not always the best.
The comment about making things happen w/out too much damage to your pets, one day that will change to I can give my animals what they deserve and there should be 0 damage, and you'll have those animals for a much longer time, and they'll be much healthier and it will be more enjoyable.
Hows that saying, the more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know?
I would suggest anyone interested in nems and clowns to join that forum once in a while and hear others that have been keeping anemones for a long time.
I've been keeping anemone's and clowns for 31 years next month, but there are a number w/ just as much or more experience and it's the collection of those experiences that help us grow and learn.

 

[CStrickland]

What cracks me up is this...Isn't this whole hobby kind of unnatural?

I see that as a reason to do as much as we can to give our pets the best home possible. To me that means optimal conditions, not minimum. I strongly disagree with the line of reasoning I sometimes see that goes "well, a tank is smaller than the ocean so tank sizes are just arbitrary and I'll do whatever I feel like." Or instead of tank sizes, whatever the reefer is trying to justify at the moment.

yeah, shooting a clown down a tube is unnatural. I'm thinking it can be an unnatural means to a natural end. If the clown gets a little tickle, and then dives into the nem, and then hosts it happily ever after - cool. The fish got something it didn't know it wanted until it tried. If it doesn't, and stays up the tube or starts to act stressed out, not cool. Stop and leave it alone. That's why I like the tube idea, the fish can get far far away from the nem, it has some choice in the matter. As opposed to a breeder box (or god forbid a colander), three days trapped with a stinging invert sounds nuts to me. that's mean.

To me it's not about "Oh I really want this fish in that nem like nemo" its about "my fish might really like that nem if it tried it, and I can make my fish happy by gently showing it how cool a nem can be"

 

[BigEZ77]

Ok, let's say I put a clown in a 20G tank with nothing but an anemone. Like liveaquaria says, this is the smallest tank permitted for a clown, others say 10G. Is that ok to give a little shove towards hosting? I mean, it shouldn't hurt either right because someone once said clowns will be perfectly happy with 10G of water? Listen, I'm not for any kind of torture to any fish, but where do you draw the line? Where is the line that YOU say its ok and someone else says it isn't? (except for someone like Randy who has done scientific trials). Seriously, there's too many opinions in this hobby for one person to say they're right, or even a group to say so when another group has a different mind set. Just let it be that its your humble opinion and allow others to disagree. Its a bit self righteous to believe that you are concretely right when what is right in this hobby has changed over many years.

To me, albeit inexperienced, the vids that I saw on youtube didn't appear to have stressed fish. Yet, I will admit that I couldn't have seen what may have transpired outside of that filming period. However, many were from what appeared to be very experienced reefers that seem to know what they're doing. Still, I am not going to do it as I am not confident or willing to remove the anemone from its rock but I am willing to play the devils advocate in this debate.

 

[CStrickland]

Ok, let's say I put a clown in a 10G tank with nothing but an anemone. Like liveaquaria says, this is the smallest tank permitted for a clown. Is that ok to give a little shove towards hosting? I mean, it shouldn't hurt either right because someone once said clowns will be perfectly happy with 10G of water? Listen, I'm not for any kind of torture to any fish, but where do you draw the line? Where is the line that YOU say its ok and someone else says it isn't? Seriously, there's too many opinions in this hobby for one person to say they're right, or even a group to say so when another group has a different mind set. Just let it be that its your humble opinion and allow others to disagree. Its a bit self righteous to believe that you are concretely right when what is right in this hobby has changed over many years.

It isn't clear from your post who you are arguing with and calling self-righteous.I don't see anybody in here doing anything but stating their humble opinion, and adding the experience to back it up for context where appropriate.
Also, LA recommends 20 gal for the tank-raised occelaris that are the subject of this thread, fwiw.

 

[BigEZ77]

If they're not stressed, I'm sure there could be some beneficial value to the hobby in the sense of what we want to control. Bottom line, this is about controlling a natural environment for our pleasure...do you have live rock, fish or coral that are harvested from the ocean? If so, equally as "inhumane" as attempting to give a little push to clowns hosting with an anemone. You do it for your own enjoyment, not at the thought of the environment, because this hobby certainly doesn't help our depleting natural reefs. Not that I'm any better, but, better the devil you know than the devil you don't. So what I mean by self righteous is people who like to preach hard about what they don't agree with, when in the end, they're not really being true to the natural oceanic environment to begin with. Although I am completely addicted to this hobby, I am not blind to the damage it causes. I may be for giving a little push for clowns to host with an anemone, but I'm certainly not against it while being for all the other damage we cause to oceanic life. Tired, going to bed.

 

[davocean]

I think you are taking things way more harsh than intended.
I'm saying for probably the number of videos you've seen where all was groovy cool I've seen a lot where it did not end well, so I'm saying it comes w/ risk.(Funny how people don't usually show/brag about the negative outcomes!)
Do as you wish, I'm just giving info and sharing experience.
And no, I don't just blindly agree w/ any vendors, they are trying to sell more stuff, so yeah, it will be biased towards what is easy and increases their market.
If you posted this info in the nem forum, where there are a lot more people w/ long term experience on this subject, you are going to find most if not all are going to tell you forcing is not the way to go.