Man Vs Nitrate

[prashanth]

LONG POST WARNING

Hello all,

This is my first post on this forum though Ive been a silent member for a while now. Im from India and have a 175 gallon marine setup . Its a FOWLR setup for now.

Now to the issue. High nitrates. I've seen and gone through a lot of posts and threads on this issue and mine is probably going to be a similar sounding issue.

My nitrates are at about 160 ppm now and my phospates are at 2 ppm. I was dosing Vodka for a week. I bought a pack of "microbac" capsules by ocean free from my lfs and dosed according to their recommendation. 30 mins after the dosing , I saw bubbles form on my LR and I knew something was happening. The next morning I noticed an algal outbreak with diatoms taking over my rock work in a hurry. I researched and found out that Vodka is also a stimulant for the diatoms and so I stopped dosing vodka and switched to vinegar+sugar mixture.

I started dosing at about 5ml per day and now Im at about 40ml per day and mind you, its 40 ml vinegar + a table spoon of sugar. There has been absolutely no drop in the nitrate readings. I did a 30gallon water change to no avail. I do not have any sort of phospate reactors. I run a simple sump with a reef octopus skimmer rated for 300 gallon tanks and a healthy amount of ceramic balls for the bacteria.

Its been about 10 days since I started dosing vinegar and sugar and now the diatoms seems to have slowed down and green hair algae seems to be on the rise.

This isnt exactly a new setup. I already had the setup running for about a year before a power outage wiped out the tank inhabitants. Then again, I reset the whole thing and had it running for about 7 months before a freak accident (maid switched off the mains to the tank for some reason) took out the inhabitants. I was out of town and was so furious and disappointed when I returned that I stopped visiting the tank room for probably a month and half. I just let the tank sit with the water and the dead fish. There were probably about 3 dead fella' in the tank. There was no stench but the water had turned murky. The LR was left in the tank. After about a month , my folks ( this is where the tank was at the time of the second crash) decided to call a guy from the LFS to take care of the tank cos they were sure I would take a few more months before I turned up there to set it right. The guy had promptly cleaned the tank and vaccumed the DSB. He removed the water without removing the LR and filled in fresh salt water. He introduced the specimens without QT and left. I was furious as usual when I visited after two days since the cleaning and knew that the parameters would be way off but to my surprise , the tank had 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite. This is probably due to the fact that I left the rocks in the tank with the dead fish and it probably went through a few cycles.

Now my question is this. If the rocks had gone through a cycle, should'nt nitrates be lowered too? why is it that I have not seen any reduction in nitrates even though Ive been dosing for about two weeks now ? Could Phospate levels be the limiting factor? i believe "leaching" is not an issue with Nitrates and its got more to do with Phosphates.

Secondly, where am I getting all this nitrate from? I only have 2 clarkii' , 2 blue damsels and a star in the tank and over feeding can not be the issue cos if anything , we are looking at about 3 or 4 pellets going to waste.

I've read that people start seeing a difference in about a week after dosing vinegar and Im in the third week now without any significant change. I should be getting a pack of Prodibio biodigest tomorrow and I just received a pack of cheatomorpha all the way from the United Kingdom ( its not available locally). I hope these two take care of the nitrate issue but Im still curious as to whats happening in my tank.

I use an API test kit for the nitrates.

Any inputs, comments ?

Thanks,
Prashanth

 

[bertoni]

I would omit the sugar and start increasing the vinegar dose. Assuming the total water volume is 100g or more, I think up to 70ml should be fine.

I'd also look for sources of nitrate. A coarse substrate often will gunk up. I had to replace my crushed coral substrate for that reason. Some types of filters, like wet-dry filters or other artificial media, seem to be able to cause problems, too.

Getting a second opinion on the test kit might be useful, too.

 

[prashanth]

Ive been thinking about the test kit. The expiry is only in 2017 so there's plenty of life left according to the manufacturer.

I have crushed coral and coarse sand , as a sand bed in the tank and its about 2-3 inch deep. Replacing this is going to be a nightmare. Any possible solutions without having to go through the whole process of removing and replacing the sandbed?

 

[inetmug]

Wow, with a story like that, and the month of dead stuff, I would break that tank down, put the rocks in a can, and treat them as you are curing them, super high flow, water changes every other day or so. I would rinse that sand, or ditch it, and start over. I just think you have lots of dead stuff in there just rotting away. It one day to break it down and get it set up to cure for a bit, then wash the tank out, let it dry, and wait for a few weeks, you have no livestock.

Crushed coral is a n0-no these days unless you have a plenum under the coral bed.... basically old school.

But that is just me..... but in addition to what bertoni offers....

Many on here had some excellent success with Rowaphos in PO4 removal on a reactor, I mean... excellent... with a capital E. Not unusual for it to plummet.

Another thing is to get a macro algae moving for both nitrate and PO4. If you got the room in your sump, or add a sump, even temporarily, you could control this stuff.

These aquariums are like boats, like of fun when they are working right...

 

[bertoni]

Replacing this is going to be a nightmare. Any possible solutions without having to go through the whole process of removing and replacing the sandbed?

You could try a nitrate reactor or something that can process the nitrate from the substrate, if there is nitrate being produced. I remember how painful replacing the substrate was in my 29g tank, and that's tiny.

 

[prashanth]

I would have loved to strip the tank completely like inetmug suggested but the whole thing was setup before I could get around to doing it my way. Now Im having to find a short cut or atleast a way to deal with the issue without tearing everything down.

As far as dead stuff rotting away, that could be a possibility. There is no trace of Ammonia or Nitrite, so its not really going to be deadly for the inhabitants. The only problem is high nitrate.

I think my last resort will be a nitrate reactor. I just received the prodibio biodigest and the cheato. I'm going to give it about a month to see if these are going to work esp the cheato. And yes I dont really want to mess with the substrate. Just the thought is making me cringe

 

[prashanth]

Btw, how long would it take for a cheato ball the size of a tennis ball, to reduce the nitrate content in a litre of water?? I kept my cheato in a glass jug of about a liter and added lighting to it. Its been over 24 hours and the nitrate content seems to have not gone down at all. Im starting to doubt my test kit now!

 

[iceet]

Unfortunately bro to be honest chaeto didn't seem to lower my nitrates. I've also been dosing vinegar at 20 ml/day for the last week and a half but my nitrates are still reading the same. So I've been doing water changes twice a week to keep things stable. My system is 80 gallons and I've been using 20 ml of vinegar. You could probably increase your dosage if you wanted to. And I would stay away from the sugar, I've heard bad things about it.

 

[prashanth]

@iceet : I've cut out the sugar. Im only dosing vinegar now and Im upto 60 ml now per day. Looks like Im gonna use the whole liter of vinegar before I see a change

As far as cheato not working , it is probably because of a lack of phosphates. I have read a few threads that say that cheato stops working as a nitrate export agent when the phosphates drop to 0. what is you PO4 reading?

 

[bertoni]

Plants need food and light to grow. I'm not sure what's in the tank with the Chaetomorpha, but I wouldn't be surprised if nothing much happened.

 

[iceet]

I don't even have a phosphate test kit at the moment, I'm slackin

 

[acorral]

I would just give it more time for the carbon dosing to really kick in...

 

[iceet]

Ok, but do you guys think I should up the dosage?

I am currently dosing 20 ml vinegar and my total system volume is about 80 gallons

 

[bertoni]

I'd try increasing the vinegar dosage, personally, although I've never had the need to dose carbon.

 

[iceet]

My tank is kind of overstocked at the moment, especially because several of my friends left the hobby this summer unfortunately and I had to take in some orphans. They seem to be doing great though, no losses in the last three months (knock on wood).

 

[bertoni]

Being overstocked makes it harder to handle a nitrate problem, but the fish won't mind a higher level. Even 100s of ppm seems to be fine.

 

[iceet]

Being overstocked makes it harder to handle a nitrate problem, but the fish won't mind a higher level. Even 100s of ppm seems to be fine.

True but I also have some SPS in my tank so I'm not trying to let it go too out of control. I measured my nitrates yesterday and they are at 80 ppm. Going to do a 25% water change tomorrow.

Here's a pic of part of the tank in case you wanted to see.

 

[Hollifields]

I would clean all the algae off before you do another large water change. Make sure to match all Prams of new water including the PH.
Are you using RO water? Have you checked the TDS in your RO water? Your filters could be bad.

 

[inetmug]

prashanth: Have you seen this article by Randy? I doubt you will ever beat the issue until you dump that crush coral. Note the part about how dye off can make it happen...I have seen many on here finally have to ditch the crushed coral as they have never been able to get away from it... also, by chance, are you running socks?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/chemistry


iceet: Have you read the PO4 articles by Randy? Overstocked tank, feeding, PO4 is inevitable would be my bet. Have your LFS do the phosphate check. What light are you using on your macro, for how long, and are you off-cycle of your normal lights? The local tanks in my reef club have the macro blow up in no time at all, in fact, that is what tells them they need a water change.

 

[prashanth]

@inetmug : I just took a look at the article and before I even did that , I was swaying towards a complete strip down of the tank. Now that I have read it, I think il probably bite the bullet and strip the tank and remove the crushed corals. Its going to be a PIA but if its got to be done, its gotta be done!! Thanks for the share mate!