Mandarin and pods...

[SLove1104]

I was planning to buy a Mandarin or two in the near future but had a couple questions first...

Tank specs... 60 gallon, 400w MH, 50+ lbs. sand, 100+lbs. rock, sumpless, HOB refuge being added this weekend, and been up for a little under 2 months. Mixed reef with light CUC, heavy softies and hard corals, Hawkfish, and Yellow Tang... When set up, all sand came from others' tanks, as well as all the rock. More than 50% of the water also came from an established tank. Therefore, instant cycle from day one. All params pretty much perfect.

With Mandarins I know they need to go into a very well established tank. So I'm waiting for my pod population to pretty much be self sustaining... Question is, how do you know when it's enough for a Mandarin? My pod population in this tank exploded this week. You can barely look through the glass and not see hundreds of pods in every inch of the glass... I wanna put in the refuge this weekend and give it a couple more weeks for the pods to populate the refuge before I get one. Does this sound like a good plan? I just don't wanna put one in too early and starve it. But like I said, every inch of my glass is covered in pods so I know they're thriving quite well...

 

[moneytimetycoon]

You should try to find a Mandarin that is trained to eat frozen, Im sure it will still snack on the pods when it needs to.

 

[t4zalews]

my 65 was running for 3 years...then I added mine...they're everywhere

 

[jhawkor]

Is the pod population high in the refugium as well?

 

[SLove1104]

I haven't added the refugium. I just built it last weekend. I still have to put in the baffles tonight so I'll most likely add it tomorrow or Sunday. I was planning to wait a couple weeks or more for the pods to boom in the refuge though.

I know having pods is one of the criteria for having Mandarins... what else should I check off on the list? I know I have plenty enough of LR and LS... My sandbed is at least 3"... Rock is sufficient but I'm planning to add another 50+ lbs. this month too. Is having an obviously large population of pods (to the naked eye) enough to assume the tank is ready for a Mandarin? The tank is only 2 months old, but like I said, all LR, LS and most of the water came from established tanks so technically it's not a new tank by any means... (Obviously seen by the incredible amount of pods I've established in the first month it was up)

 

[snorvich]

You should try to find a Mandarin that is trained to eat frozen, Im sure it will still snack on the pods when it needs to.

You have it backwards. Most mandarins will eat mysis without "training", but unless you have sufficient copepods, you will not be successful unless you feed about six times daily.

 

[snorvich]

I haven't added the refugium. I just built it last weekend. I still have to put in the baffles tonight so I'll most likely add it tomorrow or Sunday. I was planning to wait a couple weeks or more for the pods to boom in the refuge though.

I know having pods is one of the criteria for having Mandarins... what else should I check off on the list? I know I have plenty enough of LR and LS... My sandbed is at least 3"... Rock is sufficient but I'm planning to add another 50+ lbs. this month too. Is having an obviously large population of pods (to the naked eye) enough to assume the tank is ready for a Mandarin? The tank is only 2 months old, but like I said, all LR, LS and most of the water came from established tanks so technically it's not a new tank by any means... (Obviously seen by the incredible amount of pods I've established in the first month it was up)

Give it another couple of months and you should be good to go, at least for one. A pair might be too much. And for sure do not put in any copepod predators.

 

[a.stebel]

The Mandarin should be fine now. I added mine after 2 months and he is still going strong 9 months later. He was 1.5 inches when I added him. Never seen him eat anything, so I assume he eats pods only. There is no other pod eaters in my tank though.

 

[ScooterTDI]

You have it backwards. Most mandarins will eat mysis without "training", but unless you have sufficient copepods, you will not be successful unless you feed about six times daily.

IME, thats not true at all. A mandarin that eats mysis can be fed as little once a day and be fine. I've kept trained mandarins in bare-bottom tanks with no live rock and no noticable pod population and they were quite plump.

I personally wouldn't rely on pod production in the tank to feed any mandarin, no matter how big the tank/fuge is.

Scott

 

[davocean]

IME, thats not true at all. A mandarin that eats mysis can be fed as little once a day and be fine. I've kept trained mandarins in bare-bottom tanks with no live rock and no noticable pod population and they were quite plump.

I personally wouldn't rely on pod production in the tank to feed any mandarin, no matter how big the tank/fuge is.

Scott

This statement is exact opposite of truth.
A mandarin has a very high metabolism, very similar to a hummingbird.
They eat 1-3 pods per minute.
Whether they eat frozen or not, it's nearly impossible to replicate their needs w/ prepd food alone, I don't even think feeding 6 times a day would cut it.
I would add fuge, and maybe even add some cultured pods to boost pod population, and have that fuge fairly established before adding a mandarin, and I would keep to one in that size tank.
It can take a mandy a year to starve out, this fools many into thinking they are having sucess.

 

[snorvich]

I agree with davocean. While mine do eat mysis, I would never try to sustain one on a single feeding of mysis. Not to mention that this pretty much precludes other fish or requires some way of preventing neighbors from eating the supplied food.

 

[ScooterTDI]

Ok, well I don't see how my mandarins are starving if they actually put on weight with this feeding regimen. One was kept in a barebottom tank with no live rock for well over a year until I recently moved it to a 65 gallon with about 20 lbs of rock. The other was in a 20 gallon with 10-15 lbs of rock for about a year until it was also recently moved into the 65 gallon. The pod population in any of these tanks was negligible.

Snorvich, we've had this conversation before and you requested pictures from me as proof that my mandarins were not starving, which I did. I'm not sure why you keep insisting that mandarins can't be sustained on prepared foods.

Yes, you may have to be find ways to avoid other fish from eating the mandarin's food before it gets to it, but it really isn't that hard to do that.

Scott

 

[davocean]

I suppose there is the slightest, and I mean slightest chance that a mandarin could live under these conditions(scooter), like maybe there are termites in your ceiling that fall into your tank during the day, thus providing food that sustains them, but it would be that sort of a freak thing that would allow them to survive under those conditions long term.
In any case, I would hope that others do not take this as sound advice and try to do the same.

 

[ScooterTDI]

It seems to me that this whole issue of mandarins needing pods to survive is myth that has been perpetuated without much evidence.

Where are you guys getting this "hummingbird" analogy? What real evidence to you have to support this assertion?

It isn't just me. I know many others who have a mandarin sustained on prepared foods with a reasonable feeding schedule.

Scott