Mandarin Goby Questions

[GilliganReef]

I bought a Mandy last Friday and I just have a few questions. I did my research on the fish for the last two years and understand they need pods. That's why when I built my new tank, I made sure I made a big enough refugium. The refugium is about a 18-21 gallons and 15-18 pounds of rock, 5 pod condos I made with 3-4lbs of Rock rubble. One tennis ball size cheato also.

Also I put added 5 things Algagen Reefpods over the year. After doing all this I finally thought it was time to pull the trigger. I went to my local store and was able to purchase a very fat and well fed Mandy. I understand I will have to train it to like other foods which I am prepared to do.

My question is? What is it behavior for a new Mandy in their new home? First 2 days I had him, he stayed near the same area and not eating. I could see pods crawling all over the rocks around him. Today before I left for work this morning, he was sitting in the middle of the tank. He was breathing but not really moving. Is this normal behavior for a new Mandy in a tank?


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[MondoBongo]

typically any dragonet should be feeding rather quickly.

when you observed him/her at the store, were they actively foraging? pecking and floating around the tank?

 

[GilliganReef]

Yeah he was actively hunting in the store. I wouldn't get him if he didn't eat in front me.


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[Sk8r]

This is a mandy in serious trouble. They never sit still for long during daylight. Is there any difference in parameters between your tank and the lfs tank? It is not that likely that it has ich: they usually won't get it unless the infestation in the tank is extreme. I'd look to water problems---call the store, say you're having trouble, tell them your parameters, and ask if they have any clue whatsoever. Were they feeding it anything in the store or was it foraging there? They are not a large-brained fish: if it is dependent on human-provided food, who knows? But the hunger trigger has got to be engaged somehow if this fish is to live.

 

[jayball]

My mandrin will grab blackworms while they are still wiggling, it is worth a try if you can get them.

 

[Reef Frog]

Did it go straight in the display or a QT with water matched to that at the QT? What salinity level did it come from at the LFS? Sudden salinity changes & the stress of drip acclimation can seem to "stun" some fish sometimes. I assume that could happen to a Mandy too. Just an idea. Hope yours perks up. GL.

 

[GilliganReef]

Mandarin Goby Questions

This is a mandy in serious trouble. They never sit still for long during daylight. Is there any difference in parameters between your tank and the lfs tank? It is not that likely that it has ich: they usually won't get it unless the infestation in the tank is extreme. I'd look to water problems---call the store, say you're having trouble, tell them your parameters, and ask if they have any clue whatsoever. Were they feeding it anything in the store or was it foraging there? They are not a large-brained fish: if it is dependent on human-provided food, who knows? But the hunger trigger has got to be engaged somehow if this fish is to live.

He was in the middle of the tank with the moonlights still on. This was at 6:30 am Central time when I found him chilling in the middle. My lights don't turn on until 12:30.

Tank parameters
PH -8.2
Nit- 0
Nat- 0
Phos- 0.01
Cal - 480
Mag-1300
Alk- 10
Amm - 0
Salinity - 1.025
Temp 79.8

My parameters never really change. I do 15% w/c every week and 25% every other week.



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[LED Jack]

Your setup will not be able to supply enough pods to support a Mandarin. How do you expect the pods from your refugium to supply your main tank with pods?

Sorry but that was a bad plan.

 

[GilliganReef]

Your setup will not be able to supply enough pods to support a Mandarin. How do you expect the pods from your refugium to supply your main tank with pods?

Sorry but that was a bad plan.

I thought that's the point of building a refugium. So the pods have an area to reproduce and re supply the tank? So your saying that my refugium I have is pointless?


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[MondoBongo]

I thought that's the point of building a refugium. So the pods have an area to reproduce and re supply the tank? So your saying that my refugium I have is pointless?


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i would just ignore that, doesn't seem to have any basis in reality.

 

[LED Jack]

Most of the Mandarin's diet is from pods that are so small you cannot even see them. If you have ever observed a mandarin in a large established tank you will see that the mandarin hovers over and pecks at the rocks all day. That pods that the fish is pecking at is so small we cannot even see it with the naked eye.

You will never observe a mandarin looking for food in the water column unless it is food that we introduced. So with that being said how could we expect for pods that spend their entire life crawling on rocks and sand to ever make it to the main tank from the refugium?

I think a majority of people hear "pods" and they think of life like mysis shrimp when in fact that is not the type of pods that make up the majority of the diet of fish like Mandarin Gobys.

And if your fish is Synchiropus splendidus and not Synchiropus picturatus I would say your chance of success is slim to none. The green spotted mandarins sometimes take to frozen foods when the psychedelic version RARELY does.

But I am not up to date on the current food out there and I know there have been advances over the years. But your tank alone will not be able to support this type of fish.

 

[Sk8r]

Pods and even amphipods can get through an Iwaki rated for 2300 gph, alive. No problem. THe fuge provides a secure breeding population that can't be raided.

Re the mandy's inactivity---difference in store hours and your photoperiod could mean he/she is still asleep.

 

[MondoBongo]

Most of the Mandarin's diet is from pods that are so small you cannot even see them. If you have ever observed a mandarin in a large established tank you will see that the mandarin hovers over and pecks at the rocks all day. That pods that the fish is pecking at is so small we cannot even see it with the naked eye.

You will never observe a mandarin looking for food in the water column unless it is food that we introduced. So with that being said how could we expect for pods that spend their entire life crawling on rocks and sand to ever make it to the main tank from the refugium?

I think a majority of people hear "pods" and they think of life like mysis shrimp when in fact that is not the type of pods that make up the majority of the diet of fish like Mandarin Gobys.

And if your fish is Synchiropus splendidus and not Synchiropus picturatus I would say your chance of success is slim to none. The green spotted mandarins sometimes take to frozen foods when the psychedelic version RARELY does.

But I am not up to date on the current food out there and I know there have been advances over the years. But your tank alone will not be able to support this type of fish.

pods travel well throughout my tanks. having a fuge is no hindrance to their movement. they also like to get out and stroll after lights out.

when i ran filter socks i would find them absolutely stuffed with pods coming down the overflows.

depending on the OP's rock, sand, and nutrient levels, the fuge might even just be the icing on the cake. in my last tank prior to my upgrade i kept my mandy fat and healthy in a 75 with no fuge.

no one is debating what or how these fish eat in this thread, and from what the OP has said about his set i feel like it is quite a well thought out approach. he's ticked all the major boxes for a good dragonet setup, so i'm not sure what your concern is here?

 

[killinit123]

Most of the Mandarin's diet is from pods that are so small you cannot even see them. If you have ever observed a mandarin in a large established tank you will see that the mandarin hovers over and pecks at the rocks all day. That pods that the fish is pecking at is so small we cannot even see it with the naked eye.

You will never observe a mandarin looking for food in the water column unless it is food that we introduced. So with that being said how could we expect for pods that spend their entire life crawling on rocks and sand to ever make it to the main tank from the refugium?

I think a majority of people hear "pods" and they think of life like mysis shrimp when in fact that is not the type of pods that make up the majority of the diet of fish like Mandarin Gobys.

And if your fish is Synchiropus splendidus and not Synchiropus picturatus I would say your chance of success is slim to none. The green spotted mandarins sometimes take to frozen foods when the psychedelic version RARELY does.

But I am not up to date on the current food out there and I know there have been advances over the years. But your tank alone will not be able to support this type of fish.

sorry but I disagree with your logic here (respectfully). I have a (synchiropus splendidus) in my 75g with a refugium and he has been going strong and is nice and fat and has been for the past 2 years. pods multiply in a refugium at an unimaginable rate, especially once a tank is well established. to think that pods (especially the ones we cant see with our naked eyes) will not make it to the display is just a nonsensical statement. considering the fact that these animals can consume 100s if not thousands of pods per day my pod population should have been wiped out in the first week of introducing my mandarin into my DT. So the only logical explanation for this is that pods are making it into the DT from my refugium. I can state such a claim because I never cycle rocks from my refugium and I also never buy pods to stock my DT. Although you can do both of these methods if you think you do not have enough pods. Also I observe my mandarin eating frozen food when I feed the tank, now you can try and claim that his life is supported on frozen food and not pods but that is simply not the case. Mandarins can not survive on a diet consisting of just frozen food. The reason being is that they do not have a stomach, when they eat food it is passed right through their digestive track, taking what nutrients it can from the food while in the digestive track of the mandarin. So in my case my mandarin would be dead by now if it was relying solely on frozen food because I only feed once per day, and a madarin needs to constantly eat throughout the day to stay alive and at the very least stay nice and fat like mine is.

So to the OP, please disregard LEDJack's negative post. I think you should be fine with your current set up. I would also like to add that when I first introduced my mandarin into my DT he hid for the fist couple of days and didn't move. I'm not saying its normal but it did happen to me and he is perfectly fine 2+ years later. keep us posted as to how he is and good luck.

 

[LED Jack]

Okay so people have said a lot of things that to me make no sense.

Yes pods can make it through pumps. Why sure they can have you ever seen the size of a pump impellar? This statement has no bearing on what I said.

Pods are in my filter socks by the gazillions. Well sure they are, they have an unlimited food source and can thrive without predation. Again no bearing on what I said.

Someone post anything of scientific value of how pods go from the refugium to the main tank. And again if this is true why have I never seen a mandarin feed from the water column. Why doesn't the mandarin just hand out where the returns are.

People are so eager to share their personal experience with little to no details on how they did what they did.

Maybe I should say that I have been doing this longer and have kept more than anyone on this thread. The pair of mandarins that I kept in my main display would actually spawn often.

 

[GilliganReef]

sorry but I disagree with your logic here (respectfully). I have a (synchiropus splendidus) in my 75g with a refugium and he has been going strong and is nice and fat and has been for the past 2 years. pods multiply in a refugium at an unimaginable rate, especially once a tank is well established. to think that pods (especially the ones we cant see with our naked eyes) will not make it to the display is just a nonsensical statement. considering the fact that these animals can consume 100s if not thousands of pods per day my pod population should have been wiped out in the first week of introducing my mandarin into my DT. So the only logical explanation for this is that pods are making it into the DT from my refugium. I can state such a claim because I never cycle rocks from my refugium and I also never buy pods to stock my DT. Although you can do both of these methods if you think you do not have enough pods. Also I observe my mandarin eating frozen food when I feed the tank, now you can try and claim that his life is supported on frozen food and not pods but that is simply not the case. Mandarins can not survive on a diet consisting of just frozen food. The reason being is that they do not have a stomach, when they eat food it is passed right through their digestive track, taking what nutrients it can from the food while in the digestive track of the mandarin. So in my case my mandarin would be dead by now if it was relying solely on frozen food because I only feed once per day, and a madarin needs to constantly eat throughout the day to stay alive and at the very least stay nice and fat like mine is.



So to the OP, please disregard LEDJack's negative post. I think you should be fine with your current set up. I would also like to add that when I first introduced my mandarin into my DT he hid for the fist couple of days and didn't move. I'm not saying its normal but it did happen to me and he is perfectly fine 2+ years later. keep us posted as to how he is and good luck.

I would have never bought a Mandy if I didn't think my pod population wasn't there. For the last couple months I would sit and watch my refugium with the pumps turned off for 10-20 minutes making sure I had the population. But like what people say wait it out a year and that's what I did.

Out of all the tanks I have owned and operated. Never had a tank run this easily and look so clean. All my corals have doubled in size. Hammer started tiny one head and now about 6-7 heads. Frogspawn same thing one started with one head, now has 5 heads with one branching. I do not just throw things in my tank. I have been doing this long enough that I know slow and steady will bring best results.

Every coral, fish, or invert I have added I have done at least a year or two of research before I place them in my tank. This is hobby I love to do and I work my butt off to keep everything healthy. All my fish I have had been with me for the last 4 years and 3 tank changes. I've been in the hobby for 10 years and reef for 3 years.


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[killinit123]

Okay so people have said a lot of things that to me make no sense.

Yes pods can make it through pumps. Why sure they can have you ever seen the size of a pump impellar? This statement has no bearing on what I said.

Pods are in my filter socks by the gazillions. Well sure they are, they have an unlimited food source and can thrive without predation. Again no bearing on what I said.

Someone post anything of scientific value of how pods go from the refugium to the main tank. And again if this is true why have I never seen a mandarin feed from the water column. Why doesn't the mandarin just hand out where the returns are.

People are so eager to share their personal experience with little to no details on how they did what they did.

Maybe I should say that I have been doing this longer and have kept more than anyone on this thread. The pair of mandarins that I kept in my main display would actually spawn often.

I don't need scientific data to back up my success with my mandarin. Him being alive and fat for the past 2+ years is actual living proof that pods make it into the display through my refugium because if they didn't my mandarin would be dead.. it seems to me that your just trolling.. especially seeing how your start date is 2016 and you only have 61 posts. Also if you took the time to read my previous post which I'm assuming you didn't you would see that I provided scientific data on why the madarin has to constantly feed throughout the day.

 

[mandarin_goby]

Mine eats frozen also, thankfully, but even so, he's always on the move, like a little hummingbird. When the lights go off, he settles on the bottom and covers himself with some sand.

 

[killinit123]

I would have never bought a Mandy if I didn't think my pod population wasn't there. For the last couple months I would sit and watch my refugium with the pumps turned off for 10-20 minutes making sure I had the population. But like what people say wait it out a year and that's what I did.

Out of all the tanks I have owned and operated. Never had a tank run this easily and look so clean. All my corals have doubled in size. Hammer started tiny one head and now about 6-7 heads. Frogspawn same thing one started with one head, now has 5 heads with one branching. I do not just throw things in my tank. I have been doing this long enough that I know slow and steady will bring best results.

Every coral, fish, or invert I have added I have done at least a year or two of research before I place them in my tank. This is hobby I love to do and I work my butt off to keep everything healthy. All my fish I have had been with me for the last 4 years and 3 tank changes. I've been in the hobby for 10 years and reef for 3 years.


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Gilligan I was not disagreeing with you in my post that was meant for LEDJack sorry for the confusion. I think your system is perfectly suitable for a mandarin and I explained that in my post as well

 

[GilliganReef]

Okay so people have said a lot of things that to me make no sense.

Yes pods can make it through pumps. Why sure they can have you ever seen the size of a pump impellar? This statement has no bearing on what I said.

Pods are in my filter socks by the gazillions. Well sure they are, they have an unlimited food source and can thrive without predation. Again no bearing on what I said.

Someone post anything of scientific value of how pods go from the refugium to the main tank. And again if this is true why have I never seen a mandarin feed from the water column. Why doesn't the mandarin just hand out where the returns are.

People are so eager to share their personal experience with little to no details on how they did what they did.

Maybe I should say that I have been doing this longer and have kept more than anyone on this thread. The pair of mandarins that I kept in my main display would actually spawn often.

All the things you state are against everything I have research into the Mandy. Everything states they need to have a mature refugium to be able to survive. So if your stating that Copepods and amphipods cannot move thru the pumps and propellers. Then everything for the care of a Mandy would be considered wrong online. Where would be your scientific proof that they do indeed not make it?


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